adrial

I decided that rather than add the KISS oil cooler in series, I'm gonna dump the factory setup in favor of a single large mocal unit mounted in front of the radiator (AC condensor is removed).

Thoughts?

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/cooler.htm


I'm looking at the 25210 or 25212.

thanks,
Adrial

Long run goals around 300RWHP, car will see track time.

RedlineMan

Hey Adrial;

As you can see by the size of the OE cooler, it was not of tremendous need or cencern. They just needed a little help. You can take that into consideration when you size yours. You don't need some massive thing to give you enough cooling.

You have chosen fairly well, it would seem. You might also want to check out Setrab coolers. The ones you picture look suspiciously like Setrabs anyway. They are nice in that you can use various fitting sizes on top (although I don't remember them offering -16). They are also a bit cheaper (as I recall) than what you are showing.

One thing that many people do not pay enough attention too is line size. They put some huge thing in there, but are too ignorant to note the line size, so their mega cooler ends up being a big RESTRICTION because it is -8 or so. DUMB! Then they wonder why the car runs hotter after spending a grand. DUH!

Porsche hoses correspond fairly well to -16. Get's pretty pricey up in that world with fittings at $36 each and SS hose at $10-12/ft. It's also sometimes hard to find room for those big honkers but you should be OK with the '44.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Matt H

John/Adrial - I will be doing the same thing in the next week or two.

1) do you need a thermostat or can you just run the oil through the cooler all the time?

2) Some listers have done this using -12 lines and those have been fine for them, is that not large enough?

3) any insight appreciated
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David Floyd

www.batinc.net

You will need metric to AN adapters at the oil filter housing.

I am using the 25212 in front of the radiator with good results, the -12 line were similar to the stock hose size.

I bought used AN fittings on ebay for $10-12 each, if you go in front of the radiator then you need 3 90 deg AN and 1 45 deg AN

As John says the Setrab units are a good option.

David Floyd

Matt, the stock thermostat in the oil cooler housing still works

cheetah chrome

hey adrial,

did anything ever come about w/ this project? i would really like to ditch the factory cooler/filter setup all in one upgrade....i plan on leaving the A/C in the car (for now) will another radiator be too much up front to effectively cool all of them?

smokey

I have a Mocal unit (21 row iircc) in front of the condenser supplied by BAT with all the hoses and adapters, and both the AC and the radiator work fine. I deleted the original cooler. The oil thermostat is in the original housing on the block, and if you drive at all in cool weather, you want to keep it.

cantresjr

I'm installing a Mazda's RX-7 oil cooler up front. is as wide as the radiator but only about 4 inches tall so airflow should not be an issue.
sourced from a junk yard it should be very inexpensive.

Matt H

David - thanks, I was referring to you, when talking about the line sizing
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adrial

I was testing the Canton unit on my car for a few months/thousand miles. Everything went well, but now that I'm doing the engine rebuild (and the engine is out of the car) I can't do any fabrication work...so its all at a stand still. Once I get the engine back in the car, I'll get back on the project.

Thanks for the advice guys.

David, How are your oil temps with the 25212? How much power are you running? 350RWHP? 400?

Redlineman,

-16 is huge, I remember measuring and -10/-12 were awfully close to the factory lines size. Are you sure about -16?

David Floyd

Water temp stays a first white line, oil temp 190 deg winter and 205 deg summer around town driving not been back to the track yet.

HP ? should be around there

I am about to install new rings to correct a high leak down problem and have on order a Vitesse stage 4 to install at the same time, maybe over 400 rwhp at that time ?

BTW, temps are with an Autometer mechanical gauge, sensor located in the turbo drain banjo bolt

RedlineMan

Adrial -

Well, you may be right. I was quoting from fanmobile experience (pictured) where the engine is oil cooled, quite remote to the cooler, and ready to grenade at any moment in any event! The 914 pictured (previously x2) was done with -12 and the 930S with -16.

My main point was to just mention the restriction topic. Most people will throw on some sort of gimmick and not even consider that. KABOOOOM ! I've seen it happen. $45k down the drain because of the wrong size lines.

adrial

Do you have an oil temp gauge? What kind of temps do you see?

Cheetah,

I just reread your post. The filter relocation kit will not replace your factory oil cooler. It will offer slightly better oil cooling by placing the filter in direct airflow.

thanks,
Adrial

cheetah chrome

Adrial,

understood...i was planning on the remote filter and running a radiator style cooler in place of the factory cooler. sometimes what i think and what i write are two different things ha.

thanks

smokey

Adrial, I don't have an oil temp gauge. I go by the oil pressure. Jon Milledge told me you need 10 psi per 1,000 rpm minimum, and with the standard oil cooler, my oil pressure was dropping to 3 bar or even less on the track (using Mobil 1 15/50) after two laps. That's with about 290 hp and a crossdrilled crank. Not good for the Old Number 2 . After installing the Mocal cooler, the oil pressure never drops below 4 bar, which is the minimum at 6,000 rpm. Next year, I think I'll switch to Amsoil, and get even better oil pressure. For track use, the standard oil cooler is simply inadequate, and probably a main cause of the problems with Number 2 . At a sustained 6,000 rpm, you need at least 4 bar of oil pressure, and I have to hold 6,000 for quite a while on the straight at Mosport. That's why I installed the cooler. Another trick is to install a second standard cooler in parallel, or the KISS system in series. I wanted to clear out the passenger side brake duct, and that was the other reason I went to the single MOCAL in the middle. Works for me. Water temp is ok on the track, and AC works to and from the track.