EZRider

I am one of the few who voted "on the fence". Even though my eventual plans include 350hp+ engine/chassis upgrade I don't see myself seriously flogging the car on track or street. Probably will end up with the strut braces because it looks cool. Reminds me of my old ex-GT350 Shelby Cobra cross brace.

slevy951

Ah, the old strut brace effectivness thread. This, obviously, is a very subjective subject with alot of differing opinions. And has been covered many times in the past. My opinion, it helps. Biased because I sell them? Maybe just a bit. But, I've never had one on a car until I built one. Now I don't like driving without. Yes, my novice seat notices a positive difference. And, yes, I have taken it off so I don't have a "placebo" effect. Having said that, if you do a search for the previous threads on this subject, you'll notice that I've made a deal. That deal still stands and is this---->If you buy one of my strut braces, put it on, and don't like it, get it back on my desk within 30 days (not shipped out your door, I mean on my desk!), in resellable condition (as new or like new), and I'll refund the full purchase price including shipping both ways. This applies to North american customers only. International guys please contact me offline. You won't be out a dime of your money. Just a bit of time and then you'll know which side of the fence your on.

EDIT:Ground shipping only!

W88951

No, that is the point. Everybody here has a different car, different mods different driving habits different everything. I specifically worded the poll in a way that you have to think. I know that for some cars and some setups the performance increase of a STB will probably be negligable but it will do something. So the Question is completely valid.

Will a STB improve the handling of Cars?

It does not matter what type of car it is. If a STB will improve the handling of any car then the Answer is YES. If when installed on Any Car there is no Improvement in the Handling of the Car then the Answer is NO.

Or you can sit on the Fence.

Here is a Quote from Performance Handling By Don Alexander
"While not technically suspension components, strut tower braces and stress bars reduce chassis flex and help the suspension do its job"

P. 61 Caption under a picture of a set of STB's.

All I can say is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


While I know that your Racer's Edge $$$ Camber plates will do more. A STB will still help maintain proper camber beter than nothing at all for a lot fewer $$$.

EZRider

Scott's guarantee is impressive! Which reminds me we have not addressed the second most important issue if not The Most Important: Namely which strut brace designs actually make a difference and which were designed just for the cool factor?

RedlineMan

Hey;

All the jocularity and spitting aside, there are items WAY farther up the list of things to upgrade than a STB.

If you're going to get one, at least get one that has a large flat cross section so you can have a good place to rest your elbow or set your beer when you are working under the hood. Oh, you were looking for eye candy? Heck, then they're a must-have!

My armchair is Kirkey Road Race Deluxe. I've got a STB. Someone gave it to me. Didn't notice a thing. Can't hurt.

84 944
2550lbs
500F/450R Full Leda Coilovers.
Camber plates, Adjustable sways, reinforced a-arms, bushings, 86T Brembos, etc., etc.

slevy951

John-

You just gave me an idea for a new product. Strut brace with cup holder option. If Porsche can add cup holders, then so can I!!!

LOL.

Ken

I definitely noticed a difference when I installed the strut brace on my car. I speak mainly from experience with autocross. I spent a season and a half without one, and half a season with and I much prefer the car with one. It provided a much more stable turn in and the feedback from the front end was increased.

Here's something to ponder. During the install on the strut brace, i was adjusting the length of the bar(The KLA one). It's threaded on both ends so turning it by hand with yield a shorter or longer bar. I found that I could turn the bar by hand and visually see the strut towers moving. I'm not sure how much force was exerted by this test so we can't compare to what forces the strut top seeing during driving. But I would think if they flex in that case, they would definately flex during driving.

Z-man

Ken: what other modification did you make to your car around the time you installed the STB? IMHO, it wasn't the STB that made the difference: it was YOU. (Yeah, I've been watching you!) Seems that half way through this season, everything clicked for you: you found your zone in autox. THAT made more difference than any suspension upgrades you can do!

Now if I can only find my 'zone!'
-Z.

Dave

I just can 't get comfortable on a fence
If your point is to get a very general answer, I'll go with "no." The majority of 944s are not track driven, many have no other mods that would facilitate the use of an STB and some even are modded in a way that is detrimental to performance in the first place. A strut brace doesn't/wouldn't make a difference on 90% of the cars on this list .

mpw

I had front and rear strut bars on a past car. I did not notice a difference in handling at all (I also never had that car on the track), but what I did notice was that before the bars were installed, entering my driveway at an angle would cause the sunroof gasket and rear hatch to creak. After the bars were installed, the creaks were gone. leading me to believe that it at least stiffened the car in some regard. That was however, the only observable difference.

macnewma

Here is the best explanation I have found: http://e30m3performance.com/myths/St...bar_theory.htm

The explanation is a little engineery, but it makes sense to me.

I think the question of whether or not a car is pushed to the extent of the strut towers spreading. It may never actually do anything, but that might depend on the grip capability of the tires and the stiffness of the chassis.

I have always heard that some cars don't really need one and some do. There is undeniably a force upon the strut towers, but whether your force is great enough on your car to affect camber is questionable.

I say, give it a shot, especially since KLA has one for a reasonable price.

Solamente, mis dos pesos.

Max

Dave

Not to pick on MPW, as there have been a couple similar statements.

It's important to remember that what works on other model cars, means nothing. A car with a stiff frame will flex less than a car with a less rigid frame. The 944 is a fairly rigid chassis and does not flex as much as a lot of other cars. What works for one brand or model of car, might not do the same for another.

Z-man

Yes! I agree! Best example: the mondo F1 wings you see on FWD street cars these days. "Downforce baby!" (Yeah, at the wrong end! )

The problem is that the owners of such cars often think their car handles BETTER than before, without any imperical proof! "Hey, it says Brand-X Motorsports on it! It must be an improvement!"

-Z-man, who proudly displays his "Powertech Motorsports" windsheild banner on his 944S2. (Hey, it's gotta be good for 5hp! )

M758

Max,
You are correct in many ways.

First... In theory a STB will improve the front chassis stiffness and thus help to maintain camber while cornering.

In practice it is really much more difficult to determine. In all out race car a major objective is to remove as much complicance as possible in the suspension bushings and components.

Things like rubber bushings are replaced with harder materials typically metals that have very low compliance. The reason is that compliance changes the static aligment and spring rate settings put in to the car in the shop. In most race cars these are fine tuned for the best on track performance. In most cases any small change will hinder performace somewhere. Similar thing with stiff chassis. It is hard to turn the spring rates when you are attaching them to a soft chassis because it is hard to predict how the chassis will react. If it reacts poorly then you might lose time.

Anyway in racing enviroments everything is done with in allowable rules to make the chassis more predictable.


Most street cars are never tuned to the level. In fact cars from the factory must contend with driver comfort and greater concern than precision of suspension settings. So there are many things that are not done that racers do.

If you want to make you street car more precise you need to do a number of things. However the order in which you do them is quite important. Main reason is that street car guys (as well as most club racer) typically are on limited budgts. Yes they want to make their car faster, but no they cannot spend bug bucks on it. So what is critical to them is to perform mods to the car in such a way as to maximize the value.

In my mind STB is nice part of the puzzle, but not the first thing a street car guy should buy. Really the first thing is to buy some track time. In an autocross or track. Just time to learn the car and learn from experineced track drivers will enhance the natural speed of he car greatly. Next is to bring the car back to factory stock spec. This means reaplace worn out parts. Suspension bushings, shocks and tires come to mind. You don't need anything more than factory and most guys will be amazed how much improvement a simple refresh does. These cars a 10 to 20 years old now and lot of parts have simply worn down.

I have learned quite bit about this from daily driving my 84 and autocrossing my stock 83 on dead shocks. It is funny how quick that 83 is in spite of its condition simply becuase I have learned how to drive. I will need to replace it's shocks, but have no intention of replacing springs. Based on the improvement from the dead shocks in my 84 to simple KYB's I can put in Koni Yellow's in my 83 and the car will MOVE.

After you have mastered this you can consider things like improved tires (r-componds) and increased spring and sway bar rates and aligment settings.

Once you have stiffer springs and sway bars and R-tires it is good Idea to go after bushings. Replace with something a little stiffer. You won't really notice much of change as it will be quite subtle. After this a STB may provide just a bit more chassis control.

In my opinion putting a STB on a car with worn our bushings, stock springs and street tires is useless as the street tires provide so little grip and the stock bushings flex so much that it minor impact of the STB will not do anything.

M758

BTW.... On that stock car is the $100 to $200 you spend on the STB really worth the .0002 of second you gain on that right turn on the way to the Quick-E-Mart?