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Morning all. Been a lurker here for awhile and now need some help on what to do with my 951. Lots of details below and I will post some more pictures. You can see the local craigslist posting here (https://nh.craigslist.org/cto/d/89-p...605433273.html). Listing price is what was suggested to me.
What I'm looking for is suggestions from the forum on (1) price and (2) whether anyone knows someone looking for a 951 'project'. Appreciate constructive (I have beaten myself up enough about how I made every mistake in the book on this) comments and suggestions!
Thanks in advance!
Now on the the story... This is about a 1989 Porsche 944 Turbo painted Glacier Blue over a Marine Blue leather interior. The mileage is 199x with a clean title.
Unfortunately I was taken advantage of by a local indie repair shop in Concord, NH and have spent way to much money on it with no end of issues/problems. After 2 years of this idie shop trying to get it working I finally took the Porsche back when the owner of shop engaged in some unethical financial transactions while selling another car of mine. Been parked in my garage for awhile due to other priorities and me being frustrated by having been taken advantage of :-(.
Recently I finally decided to do something about it and decided to have a reputable shop take a look at it. So I got a recommendation from my local Porsche club tech committee chair and took it to Blair Talbot Motorsports in Dover, NH (Porsche expert) to get a independent appraisal of the car and recommendations on what to do. Blair tells me that there two coolant leaks in the engine compartment. One under the intake manifold as well as a leak by the radiator. He also tells me that not all of the work below appears to have been done correctly and/or completely. At this point i'm not willing to sink more time/money into this car so its time for it to go. Have a receipt from Blair documenting what they found. Also have pictures of the undercarriage while they have it up on a lift.
Why is the dashboard out you ask? Well - it was supposedly taken out according to the Indie-shop in Concord as they said that the overheating issue was due to a blocked heater core. Based on what they told me the heater core needed to be removed and pressure tested / cleaned as trying to back-flush the heater core was apparently unsuccessful and that was causing the overheating issue. I'm not sure whether the heater was removed, and cleaned/pressure tested or not.
To summarize - I have a clean title in hand with over $30,000 in records since 1993. This is a partially disassembled but running project car here, not a show car! Will have to be towed! The timing belt, water pump, tensioners, and rollers were all done in 2014 and supposedly done again in 2016.
Some other details:
- The car has been repainted. The paint job is edgy but overall looks mostly decent. The front bumper needs to be repainted because it is chipped badly. The hood has some chips as well. The body is relatively nice and straight with nothing significant to mention as far as dings and dents.
- The dash was recovered in the original color (by Robert Budd) and has not yet been re-installed (see pictures). The driver seat left upper bolster is ripped and will need to be repaired. The passenger seat cushion near the front of the seat is pulling a bit at the bolsters. The carpet is in good shape all around and no stains or bad smells present. This is a non smoker car! The headliner around the sunroof is loose. The headliner is sagging toward the rear where the hatch glass closes. The steering wheel shows wear due to the age and mileage.
- The engine has always run well and strong and never smoked. The transmission shifted great with no issue. The clutch was replaced in 2015 and has a few hundred miles on it. Cooling system leaks - see below for more details. AC needed a recharge. The headlamps go up and down fine with out issue. The Sunroof operates fine, however the switch I believe is faulty, it goes up fine, but will not go down, I have to reverse the plug on the motor for this to work. The windows go up and down fine. The wipers work and the rear wiper works as well. I just installed a new battery. The tires are matching all around and have plenty of tread left.
After I bought it in 2015 it went to the indie-shop I was using in Concord as after I drove it home from where I bought it in NJ it overheated. This started an extensive (and expensive) saga to resolve these issues and get the car ready for use as an occasional daily driver and DE events. According to invoice I paid the following work was done between the spring '15 and when I picked the car up fall of '16. During '15 and '16 I got the car back several times for short intervals during which it either developed new issues such as overheating, torque tube vibrations, inability to shift into first gear, or wouldn't start. While it was running it was a ton of fun and always put a smile on my face - at least until something else went wrong. It is in the same configuration now as when I picked it up in fall of '16. Its been sleeping in my garage since I picked it up.
Bad news:
1) Still has leaks in coolant system
2) Dash is out of car (its newly recovered at a cost of $800 and included in the asking price for the car)
3) Not all work listed below may actually have been done
Good news:
1) Car starts well, shifts, and drives (though can't run it for long)
2) Its the most-desirable of the 944 Turbo's as it has the larger (S) turbo along with the other turbo goodies such as M030 package
3) new radio installed
4) can includes a freshly recovered dash in OEM color
Options codes on the car include:
- 030
- 220
- 454
- 490
- 494
- 533
- 573
- 593
- 650
- 946
Work I was TOLD (and paid for) performed:
1) Replaced head-gasket, resurfaced head, replaced valves / guides / seals
2) Replaced timing belt, balance shaft belts, power steering belt, timing/camshaft rollers, idler, and cam housing seals
3) Replaced oil cooler, oil cooler thermostat, and its seals
4) Replaced shaft inner shaft o-ring seals
5) Removed and cleaned/pressure tested radiator
6) Replaced water pump and thermostat
7) Replaced all coolant hoses and installed new heater valve
8) Replaced oil pressure sending unit and switch
9) Replaced alternator
10) Replaced both engine mounts
11) Replaced power steering hose with updated version (note: still have leak in that area)
12) Replaced clutch disc, pressure plate and release bearings
13) Replaced rear engine seal
14) Replaced waste gate frequency valve and fitting
15) Replaced front wheel bearings and seals
16) Added additional ground strap (to supposedly address issues with dash voltmeter always reading now, temp gauge variations, and slow wiper blades but didn't help)
17) Replaced Mass Air Meter and intake boot
18) Replaced waste gate control valve
19) Replaced reference sensor (as car wouldn't start)
20) Replaced CV joint boots and repacked joints
21) Replaced fuel filter and fuel lines in engine compartment
22) Replaced torque tube with rebuilt one
23) Replaced coolant overflow tank
24) Replaced both rear hatch struts and all door/hatch gaskets
25) Replaced blower motor and resister
26) Replaced heater control head
27) Repaired inoperative passenger door window
28) Replaced ignition switch assembly
29) Installed new (used) clock and cigarette lighter
30) Repaired sticky driver's exterior door handle
31) Repaired inoperative headlight-on buzzer
32) Replaced engine wiring hardness with used '87 Turbo harness
33) Replaced wiper motor
34) Replaced AC clutch assembly
35) Installed new steel braided brake lines front and rear; flushed brake fluid
...Lower the price to $4000 and you should have it sold sooner rather than later.
While this may be true, it is an 89 so the turboS parts alone are worth more that $4k. If it was an 86/87 951 in the same condition I’d agree with your lower price, but I’d say asking for $8k for an 89 is not crazy as long as you are willing to accept a tad lower in negotiations. I’d say $6-7k for a quick sale. glws
Appreciate both of your replies and perspectives. It is definitely a 'project' and needs to find the right home. i would prefer that it go to someone who isn't going to part it out if at all possible. It has been sitting here on CG for awhile at 8k. Have gotten offers in the 5k range but nothing more so was just wondering if I was totally out to lunch on the asking price.
8K was the asking price for an unfinished project? That is a pipe dream. The work that was listed is what we enthusiasts generally put into to our cars (plus more) during the years that we own them. If you don't know for sure that certain work was performed then don't claim it. My 2 cents. Good luck.
Put the dash back in it, its pretty easy to do. I will say it is easy to do the heater core without pulling the dash. You can pull it in about 20 min, you just pull the glove box and a few items on the side of the heater box and you can slide it out after popping the pipe clips.
Sorry they screwed you. Still, do a little work to get it back together and you'll have an easier time selling it. The dash is a weekender.
I'm sincerely sorry to hear about your situation. In it's current state, it really is a project car that is a breath away from being a parts car. The sad reality is that even it all the time and effort was made to get the car running correctly, it's still a 200K mile car with a bad repaint.
Some cars get past a point where it's just not worth the time and effort to make them right again, and this is one of them. It's a shame that it's an S and not some run of the mill turbo. The only way I see you digging out of this hole is to do the work yourself. It would make one hell of a fun DE car.
I'm sincerely sorry to hear about your situation. In it's current state, it really is a project car that is a breath away from being a parts car. The sad reality is that even it all the time and effort was made to get the car running correctly, it's still a 200K mile car with a bad repaint.
Some cars get past a point where it's just not worth the time and effort to make them right again, and this is one of them. It's a shame that it's an S and not some run of the mill turbo. The only way I see you digging out of this hole is to do the work yourself. It would make one hell of a fun DE car.
With all of the work that has been done (?) on this beast it would be a good first Porsche at the right price. These cars are a tough sell when the lipstick is on straight unless the potential buyer is willing to spend the time getting to know it.
While its an S, the mileage and the poor repaint drag down the value.
Your best bet is to get the cockpit back in order IMHO. While you're truthful about the state of the car, there is something about 'project' car looking to be 'intact' and 'basket case' where parts are strewn about the interior. At least with the appearance of an intact car advertised as needing more work will catch the eye of a potential buyer.
Appreciate both of your replies and perspectives. It is definitely a 'project' and needs to find the right home. i would prefer that it go to someone who isn't going to part it out if at all possible. It has been sitting here on CG for awhile at 8k. Have gotten offers in the 5k range but nothing more so was just wondering if I was totally out to lunch on the asking price.
Thanks!
I would call those "5K range" offering people back and tell them that you'll take it. With the unknowns, the mileage, and the questionable repaint it's a $7-$8K car at best, and the fact that it needs to be put back together drags that value down considerably.
I've been taken by a garage before, and it's infuriating.
I think it depends on how badly you need the money. If you need to get rid of it now, $5k seems fair. If you have the time, I'd put the interior back together (as best as you can; even if you can't manage the dash, the rest is relatively simple and will go a long way to making the car look better to potential buyers), put it up for $8k, and wait for the right buyer to come along (knowing full well that it may be a year or more).
With 199k miles per you listing I'm thinking if you get an offer for $3,500 you should take it and run. $8k? Not sure I'd pay half that given the "work" all has to be reviewed and may have to be done again/properly. Couple that with a questionable repaint, the dash, etc. and it's a world of heartache - or a great 951 learning experience. But it's not worth close to $8k IMHO. Best of luck.
I certainly appreciate the 1989 Turbo S, but my opinion is this car isn't worth restoring other than as a pure labor of love. Even when it's all put back together it won't be worth much. I certainly wouldn't pay $8000 for it, it has months or years of shop time on it at my aging pace.
It's not really going to appeal to a restorer at that price, it likely has almost no collector value. Someone who just want's to replicate the performance of a Turbo S can do it a lot cheaper on a frame in better condition. I think you'll be lucky to get $5000 for it. I have a 1985 928 S3 in similar shape I bought as a parts car for $2000 a few years ago. I'd say the highest and best use of this car is as a parts donor for someone who already owns an '89 Turbo S in good condition.
07-16-2018, 09:39 AM
WHAT TO DO - '89 951 needs to go...
