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Well she is home safe and sound, off the trailer and siting pretty on the driveway. Did a little bit on it but had to prep for work tomorrow so will have to wait now for a day or 2. I will post more pics tomorrow, and talk more about RoW, and wiring and such, all looks good to me, and being very mechanical and electrically oriented, I'm not too worried about correcting previous sins. Pulled the plugs and all are textbook colour, oil had just been changed before storage and is crystal clear, all new brakes, rotors, pads, calipers...looks great. New exhaust as well, galvanized or some other silver coloured metal, looks bigger than stock and still bright metal. I don't think it has been in an accident, all the front end metal looks original, with no wrinkles or disruption of metalwork or the joint sealing material that still has original factory paint. Screws on the header look like they have been in there since day one, don't know why the welds would have been drilled out. I have done a fair amount of body work and this looks all original.
Anyway, dinner and happy hour now...more tomorrow.
Another note is the lack of a vacuum reservoir. '83 cars have them just forward of the battery, on the engine side of the firewall. It's about the size of a medium sized coffee mug and has a small vacuum line runs to it from the brake booster. The fitting on this car's booster (where the main vac line plugs into the body, a non-return valve) doesn't even have the provision for this small line. There are black plastic plugs in the 2 holes where it would normally mount, as well. There's also some weird piece where I would expect the reservoir to be, that black plastic or rubber in the bottom left of the picture.
In that area I couldn't help but notice one of those "vampire" clips on the wire there. I have an opinion about people who use those for automotive wiring. But it looks like that's not the worst wiring offense on this car.
What's the deal with the orange plug in the plenum boot? It looks like it's held in with RTV. Never seen that before, doubt it's factory but maybe I'm wrong.
Well, I don't know where the hose would have gone to, from that orange plug in the J tube. The wiring, yes, agreed, those vampire clips are a time bomb waiting to go off, corrosion slowly builds inside and one day the blue ooze leaks out and a week later the wires wall out.
Speaking of corrosion, I still haven't been able to get it to start but I believe I have found the cause(s) of the problem, I have no spark, no fuel...but losts of blue crap on the fuses. Amazing what moisture inside the car will do to this stuff. As mentioned earlier in another post I made about the glove box fuse holder...."Das Boot". I need to find the leak soon and fix it. Previous repairs with gobs of silicone indicate that it may be the windshield seal.
Here are a few pics of what I am dealing with under the dash. I won't even TRY to start it again until this is all cleaned and repaired. I came up with a neat way to clean the fuse holders, (BTW why are these type fuses from WWII Panzers still allowed to be in cars from the 80's) I use a taper nose fine Dremel polishing bit, by hand, fits into the hole where the fuse contacts perfectly, buffs it nice and clean, then use it in the Dremel to clean the fuse ends. I know I should be putting new fuses in but until I get new ones, these will have to do. The relays, pretty much all toast, including the DME/FP, sockets require cleaning, and I'm not going to try to clean up the relays. Those ones with the phenolic bases are moisture traps, I'll replace them with modern ones from my Ford/Dodge collection of relays. DME I may clean up as it is not TOO bad, re-flow the solder joints and see how it does.
Well that turned out to be a longer update than I planned...more later.
Oh my. There are other words to describe those pics, but they don't make it past the profanity filter on here.
Fortunately, relays are pretty cheap. Get Bosch ones, from a reliable supplier. Roger Tyson at 928s R Us has them (he sells parts for a lot more than just 928s).
Get a can of DeOxit. That will help clean that up.
Thanks Joe, Appreciate the lead, but I rarely buy anything from the US unless I can't find it here...too many $$$ with our crappy dollar now, shipping charges, import fees, customs, duties...might as well buy a new car. However, a good friend of mine has a VW and other European import shop in town and has been collecting parts for years...I scavenged thru the bin of relays and found the 4 pin ones, all original Bosch, but couldn't find the DME-Pump relay, but I will clean that one for now.
I'm ready to start reassembly tomorrow, barring a rainstorm. I have a heater and a fan blowing inside, she's up to 20C and down to 46% RH. Carpets are still damp but a few more days should be dry, then to find the leak.
Cheers
PS Deoxit? Yes, I have several cans and have been using it for years, and before it in the 80's was called Cramolin. AWESOME stuff, and has worked miracles on many many devices.
Welcome to the 'early' 944 world..... ( that of the '82 and '83 built cars ).
a few things about your car:
--- The early '82 and '83 built models differ in many ways from the other series one cars of '84 and '85.1. The '82 built car I own has many different features in it's make up than any other later cars in my garage; the quite primitive electrical system is one of them.
---The front header panel on your car HAS been changed as noted by a previous poster, as the early series one cars were pinch welded and had to be drilled out at the welds to accept the replacement "screwed or bolted in panel". Changes for the better in the electrical wiring happened with the subsequent '84 and again with the '85.2 cars ( oval dash series ). It is also somewhat common to see these repaired or bolted in panels on these now 35 year old 944s.
--- The fact you have a sunroof delete car makes this a very desirable body to have. It must be saved at all costs as few came into America with this delete option. In Europe, sunroof and airconditioned deletes, power windows and leather seat deletes were more common. And many of those North American imported cars have been used up, parted, or are now running on tracks across North America, because the extra space inside is perfect for headroom with a helmet on. I simply marvel at the extra height I have in a Ruby Red delete special I own, with it's own little headliner like any other car may have, instead of the lower hanging moulded plastic bits used to conceal the sunroof fitment. One really does not see very many of these headliner lined cars at all in America, with the accompanying slick roof on the exterior. People remark to me all the time what a different look it has both on the exterior and on the inside as well. The perforated vinyl is a dark brown; most of the rarely seen smooth tops I have seen are usually black.
Please look very carefully at the joint near the left front shock tower, where it meets the firewall bulkhead and as it runs across to the front and top edge of the inner fender. It has an element of glop/sealer not seen in any non repaired 944 from the factory, (and indicated on any of my 9 cars). This is not a factory joint with seam sealer. There is also the absence of the carryover 'prop rod' slot ( carryover from the 924 line ) which is usually seen on all '82 and '83 cars up till around the middle of the fall in '83, then discontinued and not present on cars that followed. It was a small slot welded onto the top of the front inner fender apron to accept the rod which kept the hood up, but not used with hood strut cars. It does indicate to me a repair was at least done to this side with new metal replacing most likely a damaged portion at the same time the header panel was replaced. IF, this is true, do not despair. It just means you should take a close look at suspension pickup points and other chassis welds or attachments to ascertain if any attention is needed by rewelding or replacing.
Because the fact this is a slick top car, I would not be hurried to dismiss it as a 'base' car, but would check out the white build code tag in the rear area, affixed to the body by the left rear tail light. Decoding this option code tag may indicate it has some rather good, possibly rare options such as it being an M456 or an M030 car. It may also have left the factory with code 220 which is the limited slip transaxle..... quite a rare feature on an early car.
Even more reason for this one to be repaired and properly attended to with an eye to it's future collectability.
Welcome to the 'early' 944 world..... ( that of the '82 and '83 built cars ).
a few things about your car:
---The front header panel on your car HAS been changed as noted by a previous poster, as the early series one cars were pinch welded and had to be drilled out at the welds to accept the replacement "screwed or bolted in panel". It is also somewhat common to see these repaired or bolted in panels on these now 35 year old 944s.
--- The fact you have a sunroof delete car makes this a very desirable body to have. It must be saved at all costs as few came into America with this delete option. In Europe, sunroof and air conditioned deletes, power windows and leather seat deletes were more common.
Mr GreenJeans, thank you for the welcome and helpful info, much appreciated. Oh yes, she will become my pride and joy, it is so clean and nice, with new pearl white paint and damn near mint interior, only problem is the dash pad glue has started to release...a few loose spots that need to be fixed. Carpets have either been replaced or have been very well maintained. Original seats are gone and replaced with snug fitting fabric wrap around types, still reclining and on original mounts, black and blue. Headliner, near perfect. Only other interior issue so far, water leak left front right below the windshield, it's dripping right on the relay panel (hence the rusty relays and fuses. I have a tarp on it now until I can repair that, heater and fan blowing inside to dry it all out, "currently inside the Porsche it's 22C with RH of 41%, forecast for tonight continued drying trend"
Originally Posted by mrgreenjeans
Please look very carefully at the joint near the left front shock tower, where it meets the firewall bulkhead and as it runs across to the front and top edge of the inner fender. It has an element of glop/sealer not seen in any non repaired 944 from the factory, (and indicated on any of my 9 cars). This is not a factory joint with seam sealer. There is also the absence of the carryover 'prop rod' slot ( carryover from the 924 line ) which is usually seen on all '82 and '83 cars up till around the middle of the fall in '83, then discontinued and not present on cars that followed. It was a small slot welded onto the top of the front inner fender apron to accept the rod which kept the hood up, but not used with hood strut cars. It does indicate to me a repair was at least done to this side with new metal replacing most likely a damaged portion at the same time the header panel was replaced. IF, this is true, do not despair. It just means you should take a close look at suspension pickup points and other chassis welds or attachments to ascertain if any attention is needed by re-welding or replacing.
You sir, have a very keen eye, thank you. I just went out and had a close look, I see what you are talking about, it must have been a LONG time ago as it has blended in so well, all paints match, and it looks like it was well done. I looked around underneath quickly (it's pouring rain here today) and everything looks okay, but once I get it running will run it up on ramps, or just jack it up and remove the wheels and have a close look. Are you thinking that perhaps the whole front clip has been replaced? I didn't see any seam sealer running down to the chassis, it sort of stops just off the top of the shock tower. The chassis looks very rust free, body as well, just a bit around the rear wheel arches, nothing serious and well repaired as evidenced but viewing the interior trunk space.
Originally Posted by mrgreenjeans
Because the fact this is a slick top car, I would not be hurried to dismiss it as a 'base' car, but would check out the white build code tag in the rear area, affixed to the body by the left rear tail light. Decoding this option code tag may indicate it has some rather good, possibly rare options such as it being an M456 or an M030 car. It may also have left the factory with code 220 which is the limited slip transaxle..... quite a rare feature on an early car.
Yes, did that the first day I had it home. Here is the list from the label in the trunk.
C00 - ??
197 - HEAVY DUTY ALTERNATOR AND HIGHER AMP BATTERY
261 - OUTSIDE MIRROR - PLAIN PASS SIDE ELECTRIC HEATED AND ADJUSTABLE
404 - FRONT AND REAR SWAY BARS
425 - REAR WINDOW WIPER
440 - MANUAL ANTENNA - 4 SPEAKERS
568 - Tinted windshield and side glass
666 - WITHOUT LAQUER PRESERVATION AND CHROME PRESERVATION
ENGINE CODE - 01
TRANSMISSION CODE - QK
PAINT - L90E
INTERIOR - BH
C00 is the delivery code.
It tells you where the car was originally sold.
C00 is Germany, at least for 928s.
Edit to add: There is a "VIN Check" thread over in the 928 forum. First thing listed is the delivery code. You can see what's what (where) if you skim through it.
the after market alarm system seen directly in front of the battery area, is a common source of 'no-starts'. Look for a small toggle switch under the dash or on the left side kick panel and test for power when activated.
Did you get a small owner's manual for that alarm ? You may need it to know the ambiguities of this particular model and it's functions. Position for activation, etc.
Sometimes they fail and will give a guy fits trying to use them; some have a timing feature, some have an ability to shut down for periods of time, intended to deactivate the car if messed with. You may need to speak with a specialist in the mobile security industry or search online or on the unit itself for make, model, and type for this unit; possibly a 1-888 or 1-800 number to call the manufacturer as I did on a quirky alarm installed in my Carrera. Only the first owner knew how to set it, and that knowledge was not passed to me from the second owner. Thankfully there was a book for it, hidden in the glovebox as the manufacturer had ceased operation and calls to the number un-answered. On how to release the timer from shut down mode, and reset the system by a hidden button it took me an hour to find.
About time I posted some pics of the car...it's been home for 3 days now. Here she is sitting on the trailer, the only sunny day we have had this past week. I'll post some more after I wash it, oh and get it running.
A couple things I quickly notice.
Rear wiper is off something else; most likely because original wiper arms are hard to find.
It should also be positioned vertical.
Car has the optional for second series normal, an S2 and turbo rear spoiler... which came standard on those two. It was never offered on a series one car; they had not been developed yet for the higher speeds the S2 and turbo cars need for ground effects.
It appears like ROH aftermarket wheels in a wider than first made available rim width, for the early Series 1 n/a cars.
Non factory pinstripe.
That front euro bumper or non/North American style front valence is stellar ! That is one you need to take special care not to prang, because these are tough to source over here. In my mind, they make the car and wish these bumpers and valence came on our US bound cars ....as well as the smaller, more flush fitting rear bumper.
A couple things I quickly notice.
Rear wiper is off something else; most likely because original wiper arms are hard to find.
It should also be positioned vertical.
Car has the optional for second series normal, an S2 and turbo rear spoiler... which came standard on those two. It was never offered on a series one car; they had not been developed yet for the higher speeds the S2 and turbo cars need for ground effects.
It appears like ROH aftermarket wheels in a wider than first made available rim width, for the early Series 1 n/a cars.
Non factory pinstripe.
That front euro bumper or non/North American style front valence is stellar ! That is one you need to take special care not to prang, because these are tough to source over here. In my mind, they make the car and wish these bumpers and valence came on our US bound cars ....as well as the smaller, more flush fitting rear bumper.
May I ask what you paid for this 944 ?
Thanks Mr.GJ, appreciate all the info.
Yes, the wiper actually sits vertical now, must have been shut off with it in the down position as when I turned on the key it reset back to vertical.
Is it possible these are original RoW front and rear bumpers and valances? Pictures I have seen of early RoW cars have the same style, of course they could have been added as well. Yes pinstripe has little tiny flames in it, probably going to remove that this summer when it gets good and hot. The paint was Arctic White but is now a very subtle pearl white, looks quite nice in the twilight.
Also planning on removing the alarm as I received no instructions or key fob for it, it's made in the USA and I really don't want to deal with it. I may install a newer one down the road.
I re-installed all the fuses and relays tonight, will clean all the under hood grounds and put new battery wires and terminals on tomorrow and then try to fire it again, hopefully will run this time. I found the inside of the DME relay quite oxidized so I cleaned that, found a broken coil wire under one of the 2 relays, the relays soldered on the cct brd so I removed that and repaired it, both go click click now with power applied, that could have been the main problem, along with all the oxidized fuses and holders. Hopefully the battery light will now go out as even with the ignition switch off, the light was on, and it sounded like the blower motor may have been spinning at very low speed.
You have on your hands one fine looking 944. Well done!
A couple of years ago I assembled a list of Canadian part sources for our cars. You can find it at https://rennlist.com/forums/rennlist...r-parts-3.html Certainly more sellers have entered the market since then but it might be of some value to you.
Yes, most definitely ROW on the front and rear bumpers and valance/air dam, but the rear undertray spoiler (2 pc.) was first developed for the turbo which came out late '85 as an '86 model. Also as noted by the side marker on front fender and lack of one on the rear flanks. There are no bumper shocks either giving it that pure 944 look which was somewhat diminished aesthetically speaking with the North American style.
Does it by chance have crank windows ? Many euro 944s did.
And be aware the rear wiper hub stud is steel and the wiper arms (on originals) are aluminum, so usage on a dry glass or in heavy rains will cause the stud to gore out or ream away the aluminum, fill the grooves in the shaft with filings, and stop the wiper from rotating. Simply remove, clean the grooves of shaft, re-tighten and it will work as new.
You made a most excellent buy on a sunroof delete car ! Even one with issues of non running capabilities.
So I put everything back together, cleaned all of the ground points on the body, put in new #1 ground cable right to the same bolt on the block back to the battery, cleaned all those connectors on the block to firewall as well, put all new ends on the power harness wires at the battery then got in, crossed my fingers turned the key and within 5 seconds fired right up, literally....BLOODY HELL, smoke pouring out from under the dash....shut it off ran around to the battery, thankfully had not done them up tight, and pulled off the ground connection. What a smell. Officially my first car smoke show.
After the smoke had cleared I got under the dash again and pulled all of the fuse and relay panels out, found the wire that smoked, thankfully no real damage. Turns out it was the little brown ground wire for the cooling fan relay coil. WTH! How could THAT smoke. I unwound all the tape around the harness and thankfully it didn't damage anything else but it was melted all the way back to the star ground posts behind the relay panel, the one with about 6 grounds going to it. Just a short piece of wire. I pulled the relay socket off the main panel and pulled the one spade socket out, soldered on a new wire and crimped a new connector on the other end and put it all back together, and I have been spending the last hour trying to figure out how that one little section could smoke. It was connected to one of the relays that I had replaced but it looked fine, pulled the cover off and measured all the pins for a short. The only way that wire could have smoked is by getting 12VDC right at the relay and I can't see how it would get that. Also no fuses popped.
Now, to add to the mystery, when I connected the battery before I started it I noticed about 3.5A draw with nothing on in the car (that I could find), the battery light was on, and the fuel gauge would read 1/4 full. Sometimes it was 3.5A, after I disconnect the battery and reconnect it would be sometimes .06A. Every time I connect it I could hear a little relay click under the steering column, not sure what other relays are under there besides the ones in the panel. I pulled them all and still a little click. Not the radio relay either. Pulled all of the fuses and still 3.5A. Decided it had to be something else so I crawled under the car and disconnected the alternator wire...that's it! Now back to .06A which is what the manual says is normal, probably the clock. So I need to pull the alternator and probably change diodes, which explains the 3.5A draw, but that still doesn't explain the smoking ground wire. Oh it was relay #1, cooling fan, and the fan is disconnected anyway as there was probably a problem with the temp sensor.
Anyway, it's raining now so I am going to study the factory diagrams, (just found the factory service manuals) and try to figure out the smoke. Going to drop the alternator out and try starting it again later.
04-03-2018, 12:23 AM
However, a good friend of mine has a VW and other European import shop in town and has been collecting parts for years...I scavenged thru the bin of relays and found the 4 pin ones, all original Bosch, but couldn't find the DME-Pump relay, but I will clean that one for now.
