Otto Mechanic

I just found a set of manual window regulators for my '89 S2 and I'm looking for some door cards to go with them?

Oddjob

Door cards are the same. There is a cutout in the panel on the back side that you need to punch a hole thru the vinyl to install the crank handle. The power switches get removed and blank plugs get installed in the trim piece.

Just to confirm - early/late (pre/post 85.5) cranks are not the same and not interchangeable. The late window cranks are rare in the US.

Otto Mechanic

Thanks for the tip on the cards, I didn't know that.

I did know the regulators we're different, but not very. I have a set of early regulators I'm planning to modify.

Otto Mechanic

I suppose I should ask if anyone else out there has tried modifying the early regulators to work with the late model doors?

From what I've seen, there are only a few degrees difference between them, it looks like the central rivet might be removed and the stops ground off and replaced to allow them to open a bit wider.

Or is that a known dead end?

Otto Mechanic

Colin, the fellow I bought the regulators from, was very clear on this point; the old regulators aren't compatible with the new doors. He was however able to provide a drawing illustrating the differences.

I only received the regulators today, he's had them in his shop for a very long time after he abandoned his 944 turbo cup project (my understanding), which is how I came to own them. He was very up front about the issues and I entered into the purchase with both eyes wide open.

I would, however, appreciate hearing from anyone else who's attempted this mod. Late model manual regulators are about as easy to come by as hen's teeth, so if anyone has a cookbook for modifying the early regulators to work with the later cars, I expect the whole community would benefit.

I've included Colin's drawing for reference (I hope I'm not violating copyrights on that).

Thanks to Colin Coffman for the drawing.

tifosiman

I have the same regulators you have, and your plan is what I was planning to do to make them work in my late car. On paper it seems that it would work.

Sadly I haven't had time in the past few years to complete this project so I can't offer up any other advice or tips.

Good luck!

Arominus

You could also swap early doors in if you wanted... How much lighter are the manual windows vs power? enough to be worth it?

Otto Mechanic

It isn't about weight, I don't like power windows and don't think they belong on a car you may need to get out of quickly. I've always thought they were gadgets on two door cars, just one more thing to break, but on a track car they're a real liability since they stop working as soon as the kill switch is pulled.

Kurt R

The reason the early and late manual lifts are different is because cranks in the early position would hit the bottom of a late dash when the door is closed.

Otto Mechanic

Not sure I understand this. As the window is lowered, it comes in contact with the dash?

I was pretty sure anything I needed to worry about was in the door?

tifosiman

The position of where the crank is in the door is different in early dash cars compared to late dash cars, because the late dash protrudes further into the cabin - hitting the crank in the early car position in the door.

Moving the crank meant adjusting the geometry of how the mechanism worked.

When I raced Pro Rally and we built our GLH, the roll cage interfered with the window crank. Rather than deal with the hassle we fabricated custom short (really short) cranks to clear - but due to less leverage rolling the windows up and down required quite a bit of muscle. It's remembering that, that keeps me from trying to take that easy route here (although I can't recall how much interference there is early vs late, so that may not even be an option).

EDIT: I meant to clarify, that you are correct, all you need to worry about is modifying the scissors. Kurt's response was to the suggestion to use an early door in your late car.

Arominus

Good to know, one of my previous cars had an early 924 door on it but it was power so it wouldn't have been an issue.

Otto Mechanic

I thought that might be the case, at least I'm hoping it is. I figure if I can change the scissor geometry on the old regulators, it should move the crank position on the door appropriately. If what Oddjob says works, that the door cards are the same but need to be punched out for the manual cranks, that should give me a good registration mark for the crank position and a clue about how the geometry needs to be changed. That assumes the cards are marked internally for the crank position, I haven't checked that yet.

Thanks for the update,

tifosiman

Yep, that's correct. The hole is already there. A back view:

tifosiman