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924/931/944/951/968 Forum Porsche 924, 924S, 931, 944, 944S, 944S2, 951, and 968 discussion, how-to guides, and technical help. (1976-1995)
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Old 09-08-2017 | 09:18 AM
  #16  
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From: Halfmoon, NY
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Originally Posted by NS_Carguy
yup the wiring is a mess . i think i will have to start tracking stuff back , and replacing questionable wires with good wires . if you can send me the pic you mentioned of the wiring on your 87 that would be appreciated . It will give me a reference point . From what I understand the 87 and the 88 are basically the same

I ran out to Cdn Tire to buy a bunch of car goodies , $300 later i was happy until i jumped in the car and it would not start , I thought the battery was dead so i called CAA for a boost . They arrived and it would not start even with the jumper cables , I figured the battery was drained and it was the alternator . ( I had ordered a voltage regulator at NAPA this morning ) the tow truck guy was great , he did a quick test on the battery and the battery was fully charged 12.6 , it looks like the starter is toast . but he noticed the ground wire to the battery was all hacked up and spliced together . he helped me bump start her and she fired right up .

I got her home , the plan for the coming week is to pull the starter and test it , hopefully it is not the fly wheel . While I am at it i will start tracking back wires and replacing anything that looks hacked up . Start checking and cleaning grounds as well .
see if i can't track down a few of the electrical gremlins .

Also I checked the tires and they are 255 60 r15s I think that is what they said might have been 255 60 r 15 , they are what ever is stock for the base line , I will grab a pic of the info plate tomorrow or friday , when ever i get the chance to work on it .

Also the pop up headlight bar got snaged in the hood release cable again and blew the fuse again . . I have to find a place to zip tie that out of the way
Stock tire sizes are 205 for 7" wheels and 225 wide for 8" wheels. Yours almost look like they have an "early" offset from your pictures, which would stick out from the fenders. Check each wheel, you can find the width and offset looking at the back of the spokes inside the wheel. You want to make sure someone has not installed wheels improperly.
Old 09-08-2017 | 10:12 AM
  #17  
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215-60-15 is the most common factory size for 15x7
Old 09-08-2017 | 01:09 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by jderimig
215-60-15 is the most common factory size for 15x7
Good call, I was assuming 16" wheels.

My concern would be that 255 is more like a size you would find on an 8.5-9" wheel, make sure sizes and fit is proper for the wheels you have.
Old 09-08-2017 | 02:32 PM
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..
Old 09-08-2017 | 08:14 PM
  #20  
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If you are talking about the wire with the pink butt connector on it, that is for your underhood light. The large plug goes into the hood and connects to that light.
Old 09-12-2017 | 10:21 AM
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ok so some good news , some more good news , and some bad news

1st the good news , my new starter arrived yesterday , so I popped the old one off and installed the new one .
the good news is the old one was totaled , but when it blew up it did not appear to have damaged the fly wheel . I inspected the teeth on the fly wheel and what i could see were sharp and straight with no wear . here is a pic of the old starter .
so I am happy that the crunching sound from the starter was the starter and not the fly wheel .

after reinstalling the starter i lowered the car , re connected the battery and put away all my tools , jumped in the car to go for a test run and click , nothing . The starter does not turn , i hear a hum which i think is the fuel pump , there is power to the interior components , the gauges light up , the stereo lights up , but no start. I do notice that the charge gauge is reading very low so I am thinking i have a dead battery . i pulled the battery and put it on a charger for the night . This morning I went out and installed the battery before i got ready for work . I also cleaned up a bit of the grounding connection mess where it meets the battery terminal .
before and after . I know that the ground has a red terminal now , but it was the only one i could find , and i didn't have a lot of time as i was doing this before work . I will correct this later as i still have a bunch of stuff to do to clean up the wiring .
jumped in the car turned the key and nothing . the same thing as before , I have power to all the interior gauges , the stereo lights up , and the charge gauge shows low charge . The battery is fully charged up , the started should be good ( the box says it was tested at the factory so I have to assume for now that it is good .
It is acting like the battery is dead but the battery charged all night and if anything it is overcharged , the multi meter showed 13.3 volts .
I could swap in the battery from my truck , to confirm this but i am not sure that is a good idea the truck battery is likely too big for the 944 , but maybe it is worth a try .

I was wondering if this could be a DME relay failure , I don't have a spare at the moment but the ones I ordered should be in in the next few days . i pulled the top of the fuse box and wiggled the DME a bit but it didn't help . As i am writing this i am wondering if i might have blown a fuse that connects to the starter . I didn't see any lights from a blown smart fuse but tonight i will go through and check . it is something i was planning to do anyway .
any advise would be appreciated .

oh and i checked the tires , they are 215 60 r 15 all the way around , i forgot to check the rims when i was under the car last night , although i did notice that I need a new set of front tires as they are wearing on the inside quite badly , so I think I need a front end alignment as well .
Old 09-12-2017 | 12:35 PM
  #22  
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If I wasn't being lazy I'd go out and look it up, but I'm betting there is a starter relay in the fuse box. (I can't believe the owner's manual and Google won't show me the fuse/relay diagram from the lid. I'm fixing Google tonight!)

I just can't imagine there not being one. We all know the iginition switch can't be running that much juice. I just had a recent saga with my G14 relay marked "iginition relay X". Turns out that one controls the power to the windows and blower motor, even tho there are relays for both of them also. So a relay powering relays. Mine had stated to not trip anymore when the iginition was on.

Anyway, because of my issue, it's on the top of my list for things for you to look at. Later I'll dig in and verify, when I can get to my fuse box. If you do find a starter relay, try to find another like it in the box and swap em.

It's possible you got a bum starter, but I'd put that lower on my list. For safety reasons I'll keep some testing ideas to myself, but both the old and new one giving you nothing when turning the key makes me want to say it's elsewhere.

Could have melted a wire if the old on shorted out. But I'd look to fuses first.

DME Relay could give you no spark or no fuel, but it won't give you a no crank issue.

Also, it's possible it could be the iginition switch. But that would be low on my list as well.

So for my .02 cents, relays/fuses first. If you can in fact verify both are good, testing for power at the starter would be my next step. That's easier and quicker than removing the starter to test*, if you have someone to help at least. If all that checks out post up with the results!

*** There are ways to test the starter without removing it. For safety reasons I highly suggest not going that route. Lost a VERY experienced Uncle that way. Just never test starters while under cars folks. Just don't. No matter how sure you are it's not in gear. /End PSA
Old 09-12-2017 | 01:35 PM
  #23  
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Until you find the source of your issues, DO NOT leave that battery left connected while unattended;

you may just come home from work to find your car, the garage, and your house in cinders
Old 09-12-2017 | 03:19 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 951Dreams
If I wasn't being lazy I'd go out and look it up, but I'm betting there is a starter relay in the fuse box. (I can't believe the owner's manual and Google won't show me the fuse/relay diagram from the lid. I'm fixing Google tonight!)

I just can't imagine there not being one. We all know the iginition switch can't be running that much juice.

It's possible you got a bum starter, /End PSA
The starter "relay" is the solenoid mounted on the starter. It takes care starter engagement and supplying the direct connection to the battery for cranking. My money is on a bad starter.

My parents used to live in Bella Vista...true story.
Old 09-12-2017 | 03:55 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by 951Dreams
If I wasn't being lazy I'd go out and look it up, but I'm betting there is a starter relay in the fuse box. (I can't believe the owner's manual and Google won't show me the fuse/relay diagram from the lid. I'm fixing Google tonight!)

I just can't imagine there not being one. We all know the iginition switch can't be running that much juice. I just had a recent saga with my G14 relay marked "iginition relay X". Turns out that one controls the power to the windows and blower motor, even tho there are relays for both of them also. So a relay powering relays. Mine had stated to not trip anymore when the iginition was on.

Anyway, because of my issue, it's on the top of my list for things for you to look at. Later I'll dig in and verify, when I can get to my fuse box. If you do find a starter relay, try to find another like it in the box and swap em.

It's possible you got a bum starter, but I'd put that lower on my list. For safety reasons I'll keep some testing ideas to myself, but both the old and new one giving you nothing when turning the key makes me want to say it's elsewhere.

Could have melted a wire if the old on shorted out. But I'd look to fuses first.

DME Relay could give you no spark or no fuel, but it won't give you a no crank issue.

Also, it's possible it could be the iginition switch. But that would be low on my list as well.

So for my .02 cents, relays/fuses first. If you can in fact verify both are good, testing for power at the starter would be my next step. That's easier and quicker than removing the starter to test*, if you have someone to help at least. If all that checks out post up with the results!

*** There are ways to test the starter without removing it. For safety reasons I highly suggest not going that route. Lost a VERY experienced Uncle that way. Just never test starters while under cars folks. Just don't. No matter how sure you are it's not in gear. /End PSA
Make sure your starter hasn't lopped off the potmetal "nosecone"
I had to get a replacement one two days after I installed it.Second starter works fine
Old 09-12-2017 | 03:55 PM
  #26  
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It's probably just the battery. My tractor did the same thing this Spring. Was shown as fully charged but didn't have enough juice to engage the starter. Even when jumped from another vehicle it still wouldn't start. It was totally sulfated. New battery solved the issue.

Also make sure you have the ground connection to the bell housing and it is tight.
Old 09-12-2017 | 07:02 PM
  #27  
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so i just swapped batteries , same thing nothing, no crank . i am getting a single click which sounds like it is coming from the passenger side under the dash area . and there is a humm/wirrrrr sound coming from i think where the starter is .

I also gave a few light taps on the starter and the solenoid still nothing .

I checked the fuse box , and i did not see a starter fuse or starter relay labeled . i studied the electrical diagram for the car but i am not sure i fully understand the whole thing . it looks like the starter dos at some point go through the sunroof motor relay , and that is run through fuse 36 . i replaced fuse 36 and and still nothing .

I am thnking it must be a bad starter , i am off to cdn tire to return some stuff , and need to bick up some leads , that will allow me to bypass the key and start the car by touching the battery hot terminal . ( I hope ) ( it is an idea i see some one trying on youtube . if that fails i will pull the starter . i also emailed the company i bought the starter from , and asked if they had any ideas before i pull the starter and send it back to them .

any ideas are appreciated.
Old 09-12-2017 | 07:30 PM
  #28  
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bench test the starter.

see what the voltage drop is from the key to the starter trigger wire. if the solenoid doesn't receive 12V, the starter wont engage.
Old 09-13-2017 | 12:34 AM
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Since the car was starting with the old starter, despite its sad state, it would seem that the new starter is the problem... or an error in reconnecting the wiring (or a brittle wire that broken during the starter change...).
My 2 cents CDN worth...
Old 09-14-2017 | 10:18 AM
  #30  
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ok so I went out to have another go at the starter issue . I took the old starter out with me , because i wanted to check and make sure that i had been sent the correct starter when i pulled the new one off .

when i was under the car about to pull the new starter , i noticed that where the ignition lead was connected did not have a solder blob on it like the old starter . when i put it on , i put put it on the post with the screw as it was the only post with a screw ( it was 11 at night ) because the old one was attached with a screw , so in my haste i just reconnected the new starter with a screw on the only place that had a screw . when i looked under the car the post with a solder blob had an 8mm nut for an attachment . so i thought hmmm i wonder ? I switched the connection point for the ignition wire and she fired right up . Way back in the day , when I worked selling electronics we use to call that a RTFM error ( Read The F$#king Manual ) . any way I share this in the hopes that it will help someone else if they run into this problem in the future .

original starter

new starter installed properly , originally i had the ignition wire on the back pin you can see in behind where the Philips head screw is .



This morining i ran the car down to the VW dealer for an alignment as i noticed the front tires wearing on the insides .
he just called , with the news that the driver-side front shock is quite worn , but other than that the car looks good . he said he could adjust it to get me through the rest of the summer but when i put new shocks in it would need another alignment . This is not a big deal it will be a winter project . I only have another 6 weeks or so before she will be put away for the winter . I will pull the front struts then .

Thanks for the help everyone gave me , it was all useful, and helped me begin to learn the car .


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