Griffin951

So Ive recently bought a 73 914 1.8L and Ive been looking into doing a 993 swap front & rear suspension as well as the engine. I was wondering if I would need to build a sub frame or anything of the sorts to strengthen the car enough for all the added weight and torque.

Macster

Don't think a sub frame is needed. A co-worker as a 993 in his 914 and IIRC he told me it was pretty close to a bolt in.

Here's a link that covers some of the car's setup. Not sure how complete it is as I do not have the time to read the entire thread.

I just watched the co-worker drive off in his 914/993/6 and was thinking of maybe doing the same thing...

Anyhow the link:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.p...ST&f=2&t=44700

Macster

Yes, I can say he did not have to create a sub-frame. The only chassis/tub mod required was to weld in a larger/heavier duty front engine mount. The stock mount is rather puny for the heavier 993 engine. No extra bracing of the bulkhead was required.

BTW, he says the stock 4-cylinder engine is a good engine as long as it is in good shape and taken care of. He says his car's original 4-cylinder engine ran very well -- it had the stock fuel injection system (which he says some owners replace with carbs with mixed results) -- and he says the engine still runs great now in another person's 914.

The more powerful 993 engine is tempting and apparently fits with little (relatively little) work but the stock car with the stock and healthy engine is a nice car.

CFM928

Racers at the time thought it was a good idea, if memory serves me, but it's been a while... There were pre-stamped metal plates available. My 914-6 has homade (messy) chassis reinforcement. I believe Panaroma / UpFixin published info on this, 'Project 914' was the title.

Macster

The co-worker tracks his car a lot. Has a number painted on both sides of the car.

IIRC he has not made any big mod's to the car for this but I'll check with him Monday.

The only mod I know he's made was to fit Boxster brakes to the car. Someone makes adapters that make this a pretty easy job. And the Boxster brakes really bring some improvement to the car's braking.

Matt Romanowski

You have to install a different mount on the firewall for a -6 motor. Also need to do a different flywheel and clutch setup. Need an oil cooler too along with an oil tank and lines. Not really just bolt in.

As for the suspension - no chance without major work. Front suspension from 85-88 911 bolts in, but Porsche changed things significantly with the 964. The rear has always been totally different, so no chance there.

As to place to help, there are a lot. I think Patrick Motorsports sells kits to do it all. One of the best resources is in CT with Tangerine Racing.

Macster

It is not a bolt in but the swap does not require major surgery either.

The co-worker who did a 993 into a 914 swap did install a nice oil cooler with big lines. Oil capacity is around 16 quarts now.

Matt Romanowski

It's not major surgery, but not a weekend either. The motor mount should be welded in (they make bolt in stuff that is known to fail). You have to cut the holes in the drivers side of the engine compartment for a factory tank or figure out where else you want to mount it. If you mount it somewhere else, you have to figure out how you want to do that. The oil lines can either go like the factory GT lines (read $$ if you buy them), up the inside of the longitudinals, or you can do them through the passenger compartment if you do some more cutting.

If you go with a cooler in the front (the only way to keep a 3.6 cool) you have to cut the behind the bumper and the front trunk floor for the airflow. You also have to then do a GT front bumper and valance. Those won't bolt right on and will take some body work to fit right.

Also, with a 3.6, it will kill an old transmission pretty quick. So then you have to rebuild yours. Good luck finding a pinion bearing - you'll need it because the cage is probably junk. You also have to do a new shift linkage and the throttle linkage while your at it. You can buy them, but it still takes time to get it right. Then when you drive it for a little while and kill the transmission, you'll want either a WEVO or Vellios kit for a 915 transmission to put in. Or you could go big and put a G50 in it. Big money either way. No matter what, you'll want a transmission cooler too (trust me).

Oh, it will kill your old CV joints too. So you can replace those, but you might as well pull the stub axles and put a 5 lug setup in. You get to do the rear wheel bearings while your at it. Might as well do the trailing arm bushings while your at it because a car with a 3.6 will eat the 40 year old ones pretty quick. You can't do just 5 lug on the rear, well you could, but it would look funny. So then you get to put a 911 suspension in the front with bigger brakes, that you need to stop a really fast 914 with a 3.6. While you're doing all that, might as well do spring, torsion bars, shocks, and front bushings. Put a nice sway bar in the front while your at it.

Oh, and you'll either need to get real fancy with the intake and wiring, or switch the FI setup. The stock 3.6 setup doesn't fit and takes a bit to get working in a 914. Oh, you'll have to do new fuel lines too because the old lines won't support the pressure for a new setup. Need a new fuel pump too. If you go with PMO's, you'll only have to replace one fuel line (trust me the old lines are brittle - been there, done that, have the shirt).

I'm sure there is more, but that is what I can think of right now.

But, hey, what do I know.

Jay Gratton

Geez Matty, Capt. Downer here!

But seriously, Matt has been there and done that. Listen to him, perhaps a 3.0 or 3.2 instead?

Another option is to buy a car that has already been built. That will certainly be less money.

Macster

I never said it was a weekend job. All I said was the co-worker who did this didn't have to make an engine cradle. I pointed the OP to the link with the write up of someone who did this to get an idea of what was involved.

NaroEscape

Can I make a recommendation here? While a 3.6 is nice, go with a 3.2 engine. Requires MUCH less work, and is the perfect amount of power to the handling of a 914. Ask any mechanic and they will tell you that the 3.2 is virtually bullet proof. Very reliable (so is the 3.6) but lighter, smaller and uses most of the same "upgrade" components (sheet metal, mounts, etc) that any 6 conversion would use. And a good 3.2 can be found for much less $$ than a 3.6. We LOVE the 3.2 engine in our 6 conversion Huey...