Paul491 Cadrobbi

After some research and a lot of thought, I have become very interested in 912s and would like to learn more about them. I now have a much better appreciation for the fact that they are arguably the last of the 356s (clothed in a 900 series body).

I have a few questions concerning the possibilities of a using one for a street/track car, I‘m really liking the idea of a 912 “Outlaw”. Suggestions? I know that in some cases 1967 is the cut off for vintage racing and that the ‘69s had the most improvements. What would be the “best” year to use in DE events, auto crossing, SCCA and possibly even Vintage racing? What are the typical classes available for various model years? I have seen threads on the boards concerning such mods as swapping 912 engines for big bore 914s and even 911 4-cylinders not to mention super charging! What effect does this have on entering the various classes? What restrictions are there? I would be great fun competing in the same class as 356s, 912s, and other vintage cars.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions and recommendations.

hoffman912

best thing to do is to join us over at dave hillmans 912 message groupe. <a href="http://www.hillmanimages.com/sc912/" target="_blank">http://www.hillmanimages.com/sc912/</a>
many of them want theirs preserved, but personally i have an out law. nothin major, mainly big bore, upgraded distributor, turbo mirrors, bumper update, s spoiler in the front. thinking about gettin a duck tail too. if you really wanna go with a street outlaw, 69 may be the best since its the long wheel base- could do fender flares and other body upgrades a little easier (as far as i know, the guys on the board my tell you differently).

as far as racing, you need to talk to john thornton. he has an outlaw racer, customised by the guys at parts obsolete. he had em build a 912 that never was.. the 912R. very cool car!
<a href="http://www.partsobsolete.com/John%20Thornton's%20912%20R.htm" target="_blank">http://www.partsobsolete.com/John%20Thornton's%20912%20R.htm</a>
either way these might be able to help you out. (john is a frequent visitor to the 912 message board i listed 1st too. definitly make sure you talk to him! he will definitly let you know what you need to do for racing).

also check out the <a href="http://912registry.org/" target="_blank">http://912registry.org/</a>
they have pics and details about every year 912, events, racing and outlawing 912's. most of the members and board members of the registry frequent the message board too. the biggest event is the <a href="http://912rendezvous.org/" target="_blank">http://912rendezvous.org/</a> you might be able to make it there since its held in california.

Paul491 Cadrobbi

Hey, thanks for all the good info. I've read of John Thornton and seen pictures of his "912R" in last month's Excellence. As a matter of fact, it's probably the main reason for this thread... lol.

My first Porsche was a '65 911 euro coupe. Now, after all these years, I am gaining a better appreciation for the uniqueness of a 356 engine in the same tub. Very cool. But, I‘m still not sure exactly what defines a car as an "Outlaw"... could you explain? Also, the concept of sectioning out and removing the center two cylinders of a 911/6 to come up with a 911/4 is way cool. Have any idea about the cost of such an engine and what effect it may have on a 912s racing classification?

Thanks,

hoffman912

well techniqually an outlaw is anything really thats not origional/standard. now there are some different thoughts on this.. ie purists feel any small upgrade is an outlaw, but mainly its when you do some real noticable changes. body work, engines, etc. ive got an update 'turbo bumper', and planning to get a duck tail, and have turbo mirrors. some guys will turn theirs into 930 clones. some will make 912 speedsters outta targas. one guy is thinkin of puttin a 911 engine in his, and already has a 930 suspension and brakes from a 3.2 carrera (his is a 69). in order to do stuff like this, a 69 or a 76 912E is better to go with. they are alot easier to do the mods on. if youre gonna do vintage racing, go with a 66 or 67, cause those are the cut off dates.

ok so you wanna go with a cut down 911 engine. the price is gonna cost you more than a regular 911 engine.. figure cost of engine, work to cut it, build it etc.. make it look and work perfect.. considerable amount more then a 911 engine most likely.. depends on how much youre willing to spend... personally id say doing thats a waist of money, unless youre absolutely set on it just for its looks (if youre spendin that much just throw the 911 engine in). ask the guys at parts obsolite, they are the ones who make em, how much they cost. honestly i think the look sweet, but dont know the price. as far as effecting the race classifications.. i have no clue. i dont think it would, its still a 4 cylandar, but i dont know any racing regulations so dont ask me. my biggest suggestions for you, are to go to the message board, and ask john thornton himself. he'll know the answers for you. hes a nice guy, willing to help. as well as all the other guys there.

ps check out parts obsolites outlaws that they custom build. they are amazing. especially the 356's with the huge fender flares and turbo look up grades. they built johns 912R for him.

HarryD

I was at Gary's place this week and it is awesome. If I was looking to make a 912 Outlaw, Gary would be on the top of my list.

I have seen his 356's at the races and all i can say is WOW!

hoffman912

those 356s are amazing! those are some bad *** customs he makes.

exc911ence

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by hoffman912:
<strong> one guy is thinkin of puttin a 911 engine in his, and already has a 930 suspension and brakes from a 3.2 carrera (his is a 69).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">My ears are burning!

<img src="http://gallery.rennlist.com/albums/Wind/912A6.jpg" alt=" - " />

hoffman912

hey dave, we need an outlaw groupe!! none of this silly pristene keeping it all orig b.s for us man. (nothing wrong with that if its your thing but i like to enjoy my car, not q-tip it or look for original 68 door pockets).
912s can drive like bats outta hell too!

exc911ence

Hmm, how about an R Gruppe for 912's? I've actually submitted my car for membership to that club (www.rgruppe.org) but have yet to hear from them. The owner of the 912R is in it so I know that 912's are welcome! Maybe it's because I'm just a Canadian...

Hey, check out this supercharged T4 pic that I scooped from the 914 forum:

<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/914sup001.jpg" alt=" - " />

Very cool and an easy fit in my car! Maybe a supercharger from a Buick or a T-Bird would bolt on... drool!

hoffman912

yeah an r-gruppe kinda thing is what i had in mind. i wouldnt even attempt to do submit an ap there.. seems kinda hard to get in (web site says not accepting new members currently or somthin along those lines.) not to mention lack of power 912s have anyways (non racing). ive still got the orig 912 engine in mine, rebuilt with a 1750 cc big bore kit by overby's in florida by one of the previous owners. so i know i have more hp than stock.. <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

i didnt know john thrornton belonged to r-gruppe?
(youre talkin bout the one thats a race car featured in excellence a few mos back right?)
did you read on the 912 registry (outlaws page) where one guy has a 912R (as in mazda rotery engine! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> ) not to be confused with johns 'real' 912r. personally i dont know if i like that.. (i at least like staying with the same marque myself, just personal preference).

actually thats an interesting pic, i was currious about supercharging 912 or 914 engines. have you heard any results about them, reliability & longevity etc? <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

oh if youre gonna go as far as swiping one from a t-bird/buick etc, why not just nab a turbo outta a corvair? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> (that is if you dont mind a short engine life)

Paul491 Cadrobbi

Hey guys,

Ok, I believe I'm getting a much better picture concerning the world of "Outlaws". One thing I am still wondering about is if a person "Outlaws" his car, is he also "outlawing" it from entering sanctioned racing?

hoffman912

that i do not know about. from what john posted on the 912 message groupe i gave you earlier,(btw hes the guy with the 912R you love!), i dont think so.. i think it has to be what ever was on the cars for those years? best to ask john. he will know! btw its absolutly best to find out the rules and regulations for your class and league/sanctioning body. if you dont build it to their rules etc.(or build it before you find out their rules), you are f_ck_d! if you still have the excellence artice on his car, read it (they discuss how he got around/used rules to his advantage, or how they had to worry about things). it discusses how some one screwed up building a similar race car.

now if youd rather have just a really sweet street car, to blow some minds and turn heads with, forget about racing and go nuts and do what you wish! (id still see what different racing leagues/bodies will allow you to do before you do anything tho.. since it seems thats your real intent)

outlawing technically is anything done other than stock in reality (as in updated/modified bodies, modified or updated mechanicals or suspensions either intentionally for looks, or performance.) one of the coolest things ive seen was a 'porschair' that ive seen at tweeks porsche fun fest a few years running. (its a 356 with corvair engine in it.. crazy i thought at first but the guy did the work with his own 2 hands and loves the car more than many love their new 996's!)

oh and one other thing... i love your car! ive always been in love with those 'wide *** hips' on the 930 and turbo look cars. just one mean and slick looking beast! plus its with out the excess bagage and repair costs of the 930s. great web site too!

Paul491 Cadrobbi

Hey Harry,

I appreciate your comments and suggestions. I reviewed your home page and your 912 looks really nice! The main reason I am leaning towards purchasing a 912 is so I can have a vintage car to take to the track and DE events. I feel being in a little "slower" class will be much more fun. Also, as a previous owner of a ’65 911 coupe, it would be great having a similar SWB car again. I feel a 912 would be a great car to improve my driving skills. I look forward to learning more about the finer points of 912s!


After six years of use, I am still happy with my ’84 T-L as a daily driver. With a 3.2 and all the factory 930 suspension, wheels, tires, brakes and body parts, it almost qualifies as a "Factory Outlaw"...lol Someday, finances permitting, I plan on dropping in a 3.6 993 engine. (Eventually, maybe even a supercharger and a shortened G-50 tranny?) I also plan on adding some functional after market parts like a 993 GT2 Tail and composite bumpers plus a few other "goodies". I will make sure all mods will be totally reversible and original parts saved. I have always wanted a 911 like this since I saw the original IROC series in the mid-seventies. Nothing like a M-491 coupe! Great curbside appeal, excellent road manners with enough performance to keep the adrenaline pumping' on every road trip! <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

hoffman912

thanx! we got lucky and found a really good one.

let me know whats going on, if you find out any info or what youre deciding to do!