hebrewhomeboy

I'm idly looking for another car to use as a daily driver, so I can park my 911 and keep it low miles and looking nice, and just drive it on the weekends. I'm a big fan of the old 911/912s, but the engine cost always kinda turned me off. However, what about an old 912 with no engine or a blown engine, and a VW engine used instead? I'm not hugely knowledgeable about the 912s or VWs, other than the VW engine is cheap, so how inexpensive would it be to install a VW engine in the 912? Is it a complicated swap? From what I understand it's not too uncommon to do this swap.

And an apology to any purists that I might bother with the above question, I just want another Porsche, and I figure the cost of maintaining/repairing the veedub engine is about as cheap as it gets.

Oh, and one last one, how much should I expect to pay for a 912 (year doesn't really matter) with little to no rust, blown/no engine but otherwise mechanically sound? I don't care about paint, I can repaint it, and the interior wont bother me too much, it'll be my daily/fun car. Could I pick one up for about $4K?

hoffman912

I am assuming you are talking about a 65-69 912, and not the 912E

a 912 engine is not cheeper than a 911 engine. both cost about the same parts and shop labor wise. but maintenence is easier. parts are expensive because of how hard they are becoming to find.

you most likely will not find a 912 in a rust free condition for 4K. even with a blown engine.

yes, a vw type 1 or type 4 engine will bolt directly to the gear box, BUT there are a ton of factors you must consider.

-you will need to rebuild the gear box so that it has proper gearing for those engines.
-the costs to build a hopped up vw engine will be expensive and unreliable compared to a stock 912 engine.
-you will have to customize and fabricate motor mounts
-you will have to customize and fabricate engine tin. if you dont put engine tin in, you will have engine temp issues as the tin is part of the cooling, and helps block out exhaust and header heat
-the value of your car will drop faster than a blink of an eye.
-a type 4 engine would be better to use than a type 1, and you can use the engine tin from a 912E for the type 4 conversion.

you may be able to get better answers on teh renegade section of teh 912 registry's forums,

http://912bbs.org/index.php?a=forum&f=16

these probably arent the answers you wanted to hear, but frankly its a PITA, and in the long run youre better off just sticking with a 912 engined car. if a 912 engine is blown, you can find a core running engine on ebay or through on line adds every once in a blue moon, or even at pprsche salvage yards (easy, and parts heaven come to mind) for 3-4,000.

imho, its really not worth it to do the conversion to a vee dub motor.

if you want a 1976 912E, it might be closer to your price range in rough shape, and already has a vw type 4 engine stock.

hoffman912

btw, 912 E engine tin is going to be very very very hard to find. only 2099 or so 912Es were ever produced.

hebrewhomeboy

Hey, thanks for the reply. I think I was under the impression that it was a simpler swap than that, and would have just built a very very mild 1800cc VW engine to putt around in, nothing huge horsepower. It would be a daily driver/fun car, so I wouldn't care if there was some rust (as long as it was fixable), bad paint, or crappy interior, as long as it's a Porsche and reliable. Also the value of the car I wouldn't care about, as again this wouldn't be a car that I planned to resell, it would be one for me to just enjoy point a to point b in. I just want a cheap little daily driver so I can park my 911, and I'm looking at every possible way to make that cheap little car a Porsche, since I'm now addicted to them. I'll look into the 1976 though, thanks for that tip. When you say it has the type 4 engine, is that a literal VW engine, or is it a case of "porsche's version" of the engine?

Again, thanks for the replies, you answered all my questions pretty much perfectly. And I would hate to devalue an old 912 like that, I do love the cars. And hey, the 1976 would look rad with a whale tail

hoffman912

No problem! its a straight bolt in, there is no question about that, so yes, it is a straight swap, with out real mods, but looking at it realistically, there is much that has to be done. not many people realize that.

if youre looking at a daily driver on a budget, i would stay away from early 911s/12s or 356s as they will nickle and dime you. maybe check out a 914, it has a type 4 motor too, and can be just as much fun or more than a 912 or 911. they are also still more affordable.

still if youre budget is tight, maybe check out a e30 bmw. reliable, fun, still have a bare bones feel, and are cheep. you can buy a rock solid one for 3 grand.

VW had various engines they made. the type 1 is the standard vw engine. a type 4 is the evolution of the air cooled design. its a different case etc.. but same theory. vw used the type 4 engine the type 4 (411 and 412 wagons) in vw busses, and porsche used them in the 914 and 912E.

hebrewhomeboy

my previous car was an E36, you can see it behind my porsche in my avatar. Fun car, great car, but too many electronics for me, I like things simple. Funny you mention the E30, that's on my list of potential daily drivers. For that matter, so is every other BMW made in the early 80s and a few other cars, including a 924 (I've always loved those for some reason).

Money isn't tight, but I'd like to be able to 'reserve' all my money for the 911 in case anything happens to it, so I'm going for something cheap, older, german, and fun, basically, which seems to really point strongly at the old BMWs. What can I say though, I'm already addicted to Porsches, and I'm trying to think of ways to get a cheap one to drive around ha ha ha.

hebrewhomeboy

Oh hey, and thanks again for the info, I appreciate it.

hoffman912

nice! i was going to suggest 924s too, but i figured you only wanted to look at aircooled porsches. either way, for a cheep beater a porsche isnt a smart choice. the ones in bad shape wil cost a ton to fix, and the bad ones are cheep for a reason. there is never a such thing as a cheep porsche.

i love e30s. so well balanced and behaved, but i agree with you about electronics. my 325E has major gauge issues.. non functioning speedo, temp gauge, and issues with headlights. but i can beat on it, and mash the pedal and its so fun. it wont break on me and its quick with out being so fast that i can get myself into trouble. i think you woudl have a blast with a 325I or 325IS. Plus. if youre on the islands, it will be easier to find one there. i cant immagine how much it would cost to ship a car from the mainland

you can see my old 325I 5 speed behind the 12.. i totaled that one last year going over an icey bridge


what do you think of the e36?

hebrewhomeboy

I'm in the army, and i have just over 1 year left. When I get out I'm moving to Jacksonville, FL, and they'll ship my stuff there, and they'll pay for 1 car to be shipped, so no worries there! When I get to Jacksonville I'll be getting the daily driver. I'm just trying to plan everything out in advance.

I know there isn't a cheap Porsche. There's got to be a way though I've seen 924s in very very nice condition for around $2.5K-$3K, so as long as I'm careful and get one with a good clutch and water pump I should be okay there.

Another thing is that I would really prefer a car from 1981, since that's when I was born. I've just always wanted a car from then. That limits my choices of a Porsche to a 911 (expensive) 928 (V8! but expensive) or 924 (dime a dozen).

As for the E36, I think it was the perfect blend of luxury and sportiness, and a beautiful car. I miss mine, it was a great car. I'd say the E36 2 door is my all time favorite BMW. It had 143K miles on it when I got rid of it and it still ran like it was brand new. All the electronic crap on it started going south though, that's one of the reasons for my dislike of electronics. So a 1981 E21 would be my first choice of BMW for a daily driver, and I would love to have an old 6 series also, but those are a little more pricey, and their gas mileage wouldn't be as good. Pretty much my top two cars for a daily driver are an E21 and a 924. The E21 will cost less to purchase, maintain, and modify, but the 924 is a Porsche, which is a big plus on my side, and I love the way the 924 looks. They both have small engines that would get pretty decent gas mileage, and would both be fun to autocross, so pretty much I think it's going to come down to whichever one I find first in good condition.

GloriaRedStang

There's a 912 on Honolulu craigslist right now. I was going to take a look at it out of curiosity and thought I'd check over here (912 forum) first.

BTW, if you're interested in cheap German performance I too would recommend a watercooler: the 944. I've got one and love it.

philip912

Harry knows what he is talking about. I have owned my '68 912 since 1970 which I bought for $4200. I did a total 3 year restoration in 2003 (not concourse) which cost over $23K in materials and parts. Prior to the restoration I spent over $5000 in engine repairs with VW hacks that were clueless about Porsches. I got so pissed I stored the car for 18 years. I brought it out in 2003 and with a lot of help from the 912 Registry, I did the restoration myself. The 912 is not a cheap car to own because it is a maintenance beast. It's cheaper to buy a decent 911.
This year I bought a 1986 BMW 325ES with 180,000 miles for $2000 as a daily driver and it runs like no other plus it has air conditioning and get 32 mpg.

skipnsb

I agree that the 912 values are rising, and that a 912 with a vw engine is less desirable as far a collectability. But putting in a type 1 using a bus hangar will not permanently change anything. So if you find one without a motor, just put in a bug motor or t4 without hacking it up and later, when you find the 616 you can put it in. The 914 t4 is a bolt in to the trans, even the clutch/flywheel, the motor mount needs some thought. 912E exhaust. T1 might need a flywheel/clutch change, I am not sure.
I'd rather see a 912 get back on the road with a vw engine that rust away in the back yard. Skip