S4drifter

As a new owner, I am still acclimating myself to this wonderful car ('87). In the spring, I will be attending DE events and would like some initial feedback on the inherent vehicle dynamics of this car and how it handles when driven aggressively on the track. This would of course, also translate to the street, but I tend to behave myself on the street and don't get near 8/10ths on local roads.

I understand the "wily" nature of the car when boost comes on, especially mid-corner. I also understand the problem with "lifting". The problem is, I am coming out of a modified Audi S4 that has AWD. Punching it early on track out was easy. I would like to adjust my driving accordingly. Before the Audi, i had an E36 M3, with a 50/50 weight distribution, so that car handled amazing, but again, very different from the 930.

So what can I expect when pushing the car through the esses at watkins glen doing 100+? Will the car tend to understeer in the corner or will it oversteer? Is there much of a warning before loss of traction? What are the telltale signs that I am pushing the limits of adhesion?

Any track/DE tips would be appreciated. Car is running Bilsteins with RE730's (I think). 225's on the front and 275's on the rear.

Sorry for the blatant newbie post, but I want to be safe and begin my long journey of learning how to drive this car fast. I have done half a dozen DEs and Skip Barber. Still a novice in my mind.

Geoffrey

Driving a 911 Turbo, especially one that has been modified at the limit on the street is very difficult and not a wise thing to do.

I wouldn't say that the car has a Wily nature to it, but rather the opposite. I think the car is a fantastic handling car, but it is to be respected and it does require different driving techniques. The thing about the 911 isn't that it spins so easily, it is that when the back end starts comming out, things happen much quicker due to the momentum of the weight in the back. I think the car communicates very well, and you can use the weight bias to your advantage. For instance, you can lift momentarily in the corner to get the car to rotate. The difficulty with the turbo, and particularly one with a 4spd box is the off/on boost characteristics. You'll find yourself on the gas earlier and as the boost builds, you'll let up on the accelerator as you find the limit of traction on corner exit. As you track out, you apply more accelerator, but this time, things happen quicker because the boost has already built.

As for understeering/oversteering, that entirely depends on how your car has been set up. Stock, it will understeer so not to worry. Going through the esses isn't the toughest part of the track, turn 9 is off camber with little room for error, turn 10 is perhaps the highest speed corner with little room for error at the edge. WGI is my home track, having spend 1/2 of all of my driving there and is the perfect turbo car track. With the stock box, you'll use 3rd gear for most of the track, especially if you are a newer driver.

You missed a great Tracquest event last weekend with plenty of track time. Let me know when you are going to be there next.

S4drifter

Just to clarify, I have no intention of driving the limit on the street. I was trying to convey that whatever characteristics show themselves on the track, will be reflective on the street to a lesser degree.

I appreciate the input on the Glen. It is also my home track, but I have only done about three DEs there in my former M3 and my S4. I agree with you about turn 9, that is the toughest one to nail for me. See attachment. However, the esses, especially turn 2, at high speed, make me feel like the back end is going to kick out. This is probably just my inexperience and the high rate of speed (If I nail turn 1 correctly).

Question, how soon do you get on the gas around the apex? Given the 4-speed, do I slowly apply throttle starting before apex and through it, then go WOT on track out? Just curious.

I probably will not make it to the Glen until the Spring. But would love to meet you and pick your brain. Again, thanks for the response. After 80+ views, I didn't think i was going to get a response!

PT

My 2 cents... for most corners, I am on gas way before the apex (not accelerating but on gas).

One of the most fun / difficult part of drivng the turbo for me is how to time the turbo. As Geoffrey said, there's lots of lag partially due to the 4 speed box. So, the trick for me is to time the turbo such that its on full boost just when you are exiting the apex.

Geoffrey

I have a shortened 5 speed box and make 14 shifts during 1 lap of WGI, but have driven a 4 speed modded 930 and it does catch you off the boost much of the time.

As for WGI, I know people who are flat on the gas from the apex of #1 to the busstop That is approximately 1 mile. It is funny that you feel like your back end wants to kick out. The car compresses so much, it really sticks in turn 2. I never feel loose or upset in that corner (probably means I'm not going fast enough). In my car, I'm well into the power in 4th up the hill in turn 2, after turn in to the middle esse, I'm flat out in 4th with a shift to 5th between 3&4 before the straight, then hit about 165 down the straight.

For any given corner, you'll be flat on the gas well before the apex, then as the boost builds, you'll back off accordingly so maybe you make .2-.4 bar of boost, then as you track out, unwinding the steering, you'll be at maximum boost.

Ed Bighi

930 is simply the best car to drive on a track. Everything else is boring for me. No matter how much power or whatever. Same with 50/50 weight balance cars. For me that means the front is too heavy for me to rotate the rear end around a 180 degree turn. For me, a great handling car is something with zero understeer and a good dose of oversteer. The beauty of the 930 is that it not only uses all your car control skills if you push it enough, but also the calculator in your head since you are always computing what rpms you at, where in the corner you are and how much earlier you should step on the gas. A thinking and crazy man's car all in one. Just perfect. Have patience with that beast and learn it slowly. In time it will make you one heck of a driver. Work your way up. Any real 911 will do that. But the 930 will also teach you to think about speeds, boost, space, etc...

Seba911

Hello

I own a modified 930 (Full coilover, 5spd G50, K27/29, B-cams etc.), which I use for autocrossing and weekends. Last summer I toughed I´d made up my mind for to buy a 951 for track use (Influenced by my friends driving them) and ended up with two an -86 and -88 model. Well, during the autum my mind started to turn once again (one of the 951s is already sold and the other is at the moment on the way out also) and I´m now thinking of starting to learn myself to drive the 930 on the track. These cars need respect and can´t be thrown around in ease as an 951, but thinking of the 930, 934 and 935s and what was achieved with them, they are superb cars!!

S4drifter

Sebastian, I was seriously considering a 951 S myself for its abilities on the track. However, I realized that onl;y about 10% of the time I drove it would it be on the track. So instead I bought the car that I thought I would have the most fun in. I look forward to the challenge of th 930 on the track, it will keep me from getting to complacent. And i agree with you, they are superb cars.

Seba911

I had a 944 and a 944 turbo some years ago, and sometimes used them on trackdays. They were just the right car´s for my abilities then... lifting the throttle in mid corner and so on! While sitting alongside a friends 944 turbo S on the track now days I just realised that he is driving it at an ease near the limit, whereas I don´t dear to take the 930 even near the car´s limits. But we`ll se in some years if that will change... We are at the moment planning a trip to Germany and Nürburgring next summer.