87turbo930

Hey everyone. I just found this site.

Im about to buy my dads 87 930 from him as soon as i finish getting rid of my truck and im trying to see whats out there as far as performance mods and just learn more about the car. I know a lot about cars but im not very familiar with porsches. Ive been looking around and learned a lot of things but now im thinking about doing some performance stuff to it. Right now im thinking about doing a header and full exhaust, intake. Then maybe a bigger turbo and intercooler. What do you guys think?

Heres a few pics.

Also, the car only has about 23000 miles on it

A930Rocket

A beautiful car! Congratulations.

The sky is the limit on these, so you can go mild to wild. Easy bolt on parts can get you to 400 fwhp easily, i.e. headers, free flow muffler, 1 bar spring, K27, Kokeln I/C, etc.

Having it breath in and out are important, but I would punt the idea of swapping intakes right now, especially on a sweet ride. I would do the exhaust system using the any one of the brand name systems, i.e. GHL, B&B, etc., then add a turbo and larger I/C as a pair. Then maybe the 1 bar spring later, even though it is an easy and quick install.

Get with Steve at Rennsport Systems or Stephan at Imagine Auto. Two very knowledgable and respected guys.

UDPride

Great looking car. Can I have that house behind it too??

Christian K

Nice car! If I where you, I'd get a set of fuchs.

cheers

Christian

1990 C2
ex. 1984 Carrera

S4drifter

Congratulations! I am taking delivery of my 930 next week as well. Also a red 87. I have one suggestion....and I do not mean to assume anything, but I would learn how to drive the car well in stock form before making it go faster. If you plan to track the car at any point, you should understand that this is a challenging car.

Also, if you plan on making the car that much faster, you should also think about being able to stop it. I am a complete newbie to these cars as well, But I generally assume that stock brakes are made for stock engines. Also, will the extra power overload the stock suspension?

This points may all be moot if you are not planning on tracking the car.

Again, beautiful car...enjoy, and be safe!

Christian K

It has very good brakes stock, practically the same as the 917 Le Mans racer had (the first 3.3:s had exactly the same braking system - very costly so it was simplified a bit a few years into production, but with the same astonishing performasnce. However no ABS, so you have to get used to them before you can stop the car efficiently.

But some good advice given. If you're not familiar with this particular model, give it some time before you start modifying it. I've driven several and it really takes some time to get used to them and even some more to learn how to drive quickly.

But I envy you a bit. My plan was to get a 930, but when I was in between cars I stumpled upon my present 964 Carrera 2 which was just too good a deal.

cheers

Christian

1990 C2
ex. 1984 Carrera

Bruce M.

There are indeed quite a few nice bolt-on mods that can give you nice gains. But 400 rwhp "easily" from headers/exhaust, boost spring, turbo and an intercooler ?

Nope. That's about 470hp to the crank, using the standard, and pretty accurate for the 911, 15% driveline discount. The U.S. '87 930 came stock at just under 300 hp to the crank, I believe. You are not going to get 170 hp out of the above mods on CIS, especially if you want safe and reliable AFRs.

Some CIS gurus on this and other boards have perfected some fuel flow tweaks that, combined with the above and other engine mods (like cams, I think) can get you close to 450 flywheel horsepower. But my reasonably educated guess is that an intercooler, a turbo, a boost spring and a full exhaust might get you to 400 at the crank.

As you go through this process, just take this lesson with you: if numbers matter to you, the ONLY ones that count are those from a chassis or engine dyno, run on YOUR car or YOUR engine. Butt dyno estimates range from simply wrong to flat-out ridiculous.

jrogers

I would have to agree with Bruce M. I am at 389 RWHP, and I have all of the listed 'bolt ons' as well as 3.4 Pistons/Cylinders with higher compression and 964 cams. I guess these are bolt on mods as well, but the bolts are really expensive to get to.

Red Rocket

I've had my 87 930 for about 18 months I also did the things you listed, it was faster but the biggest mistake was doing it in pieces. When all was said and done it didn't run very well got together with Stephen at Imagine auto and did his stage 3 kit, just got the car back this week what a difference. I also upgraded the brakes to big reds and coil over suspension with a 934 front and oil cooler. This car runs like a raped ape.
The more I drive it the more impressed I am with Stephens work.

A930Rocket

My mistake. Should have read 400 fwhp, NOT 400 rwhp with those mods. They are some of the same one's I have and I've dynoed mine at 346 rwhp.

Jim

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Nice car,....

You've received some good advice and I'd reinforce what some of the others here have offered.

The very first thing I'd suggest is getting used to how these things handle. They are NOT short of power (only gearing) in their stock form and the area of greatest need is in the suspension department. There is LOTS of room to make these cars handle better without compromising ride quality.

Do some Driver Education events, get lots of seat time, and make some suspension improvements if they have not been done previously. Your brakes are just fine (with some good pads and fluid) unless you really start doing track events.

Put in close ratio gears and worry about the engine upgrades last.

Have fun and please let me know if I can help,....

PorschePhD

These cars are a ton of fun and WILL get away from you if you are not careful. I would start by correcting defaults in the car as a whole. Make sure everything is up to snuff before you start your venture down the upgrade road. Once you sort all the bits and pieces then move forward and start playing. As far as stages< LOL< well I am not the best to help there. When I bought my first 930 years ago I did the turbo, the intercooler and then like a bomb pulled it apart and went straight for the gusto and built the snot out of it. I got one taste of it peeling the tires at 50MPH under boost and became a junkie overnight. LOL, nothing like them. Wonderful cars, congrats on your purchase.

PS...Don's car should come with a warning

N421LV

Hi Steve. First let me say I really enjoy your posts. I've seen you make several references to the gearing on these cars, but could you elaborate a little more on this mod for us newbies? Costs, benefits, downside, etc. Or if this subject has already been discussed ad-nauseum in another thread, could somebody provide a link?

Thanks!

KeithC2Turto

I's fun bench building someone else's Turbo. It is a lot cheaper and I don't bust my knuckles.

A lot of good ideas above.

Most importantly, research, like you are doing here, budget, and set you goals early.

Before you start "improving" the car, join PCA, make a lot of new Friends, go on the tours, wash n show off your car, auto-cross, take drivers ed and try time trial racing on the track.

Learn what modification put you in what classes early or you may end up doing something to your car you wish you had not because it bumps you into a class that requires a lot of expensive mods or that no one else is running with you.

In my case with the mods on my C2T, I would have to run against a guy with a fiber-bodied car weighing 2100 lbs that is running a 993TT motor with cams, big turbos, and aftermarket EFI putting out around 650HP.

It is fun to have people that love these cars to play with.

You have such a nice unmolested car, it would be fun to keep it "stock appearing" but "tune it" so it runs as efficiently as possible.

930s are faster than most drivers!

Invest in making yourself fast instead!

More than once, modified fire breathing turbos have had to let me by on the track in my little 190hp narrow body 911 with tiny 205/15 tires.

Again, try not to get hung up in the HP braging trap, it is not realy what makes these cars fast.

Think, abilities & effecency!!!

Again focus on what track or auto cross class you want to play in.

If not, I'd look at making your low mileage perfect car work the best it can in a simple way.

I really like what Steve said, Gears!! (or at least a lower R&P). This lets you get into the power faster off the line and spend more time in the power more for a faster car than the rated HP suggests.

It is no fun having a Honda beat your 400hp car to the on ramp.

On the motor I'd update to a more modern Turbo that spools faster and operates more effecently. I like the K27-7200 or have Koklen make you one that comes on as early as possible. The better efficiency will get you into torque faster and give you more power because they generate less heat.

I'd also also, remove the cat for less heat, less back pressure and a better sound. Set the CO to 3% for more pre boost torque & a cooler running motor on boost.

Get it on a dyno with a good tuner. Make sure you are near the top of the boost spec for a euro 930. I think it is around .85 bar. Dial in the timing & A/F ratios to make it runs as well as possible on the gas available in your area(always a good tune up w air filter first).

Now you have a car with should be up from 282hp to over 330HP that will be faster than most drivers in there 400 hp cars.

I'd consider trying to stay away from headers, a big I/C and big boost if possible. Might do SC cams next for better breathing and low end torque. Would be fun to beat a bragger, only to open the hood to a stock motor.

Yes, Tune the suspension to proper sports car specs:

Again, be aware of the rules of any clubs you might want to run with.

You might be surprised how much the right tires and adjustment to the stock suspension (height & corner balance) will do.

I'd go back to Fuchs! They are very correct and lighter than most wheels. Try for a set of 16 inch 8's & 9's, 7&8's or 7&9's are great to. Run the best 225 + 245's on them. I like the Mich. Sport Cup's. Lighter than all the others but it is really a tract tire that you can run on the street. Wheels bigger than this will add a lot of weight and rob you of efficiency & speed.

I don't know 930 handling very well, find someone that does. I suspect just adding stiffer rear torsion bars or a stiffer rear sway bar would help as I think Porsche dialed in a bunch of understear because of law suits of drivers that did not know how to handle a 930.

A correctly matched set of Torsion bars, shocks & sways will make the car much more controllable and much faster in the corners.

For brakes, update to SS brake lines and a good high temp fluid. Sport pads help a lot on smaller Porsche's but I have heard that the factory 930 pads are good.

Most of all enjoy it the way you want. If big HP bragging rights or are your thing, go for it.

Happy trails,

Keith

87turbo930

Thanks for the info guys.

Ive been driving this car for a while. Even though it was my dads car, i drove this thing as often as possible. He warned be about how dangerous this car is if you dont know what you are doing. And Ive definately had close calls. I have lots of respect for the car and am completely aware of what is capable of. I love the way this car drives and I cant wait to do a few things to it to really make it the way I want it. I love modifying cars. All of my cars are not stock and i dont plan on keeping this one stock for long either.

I am well aware of the huge benefits that can be had from changing out the ring and pinion in other cars, but I havent looked into it enough on this car to even think about doing it. What comes in it stock?? and what are you guys running in them when you change them out? How hard is it to do? Ive done many R&P installs and rebuilt a few trannies, but everything Ive done has been on 4x4s and various other chevies. a few Front wheel drives as well. The Ring and Pinion are in the transmission on these right? Im familiar with the setup on VWs, and im guessing the design is similar.

So far Im thinking about doing a full exhaust, including headers, a bigger turbo, and probably a bigger intercooler.

Also, is CIS the fuel injection system??? What type of EFI is this similar too? And what needs to be done for tuning on these? thanks