Anyone here also own a Viper?
12-31-2002, 04:03 PM
#1
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Anyone here also own a Viper?
<a href="http://www.911turbo.com/turboclub/board/board.php?messageID=17391" target="_blank">http://www.911turbo.com/turboclub/board/board.php?messageID=17391</a>
I am looking for some comparisions.
I am looking for a racecar/supercar. Not a luxury car. I am worried the Porsche is too soft.
For those that have driven both what are the differences?
If the Viper had upgraded brakes?
<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
I am looking for some comparisions.
I am looking for a racecar/supercar. Not a luxury car. I am worried the Porsche is too soft.
For those that have driven both what are the differences?
If the Viper had upgraded brakes?
<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
01-03-2003, 01:03 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Worried that a 930 is too soft? Nothing to worry about there. With good brakes put on the Viper, and more or less equal amounts of money spent on the motor, Vipers are very tough to beat.
Check last year's OTC results to see how often a 911 variant beat Mumford's Viper.
Check last year's OTC results to see how often a 911 variant beat Mumford's Viper.
01-07-2003, 07:29 AM
#3
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I have a 1997 Viper GTS that dynod at 467 RWHP or about 550 crank HP that I can compare to a 1989 930 that I still own. The 930 has the air pump removed and no cat, plus an after market exhaust. Maybe it's getting 310 crank HP.
The Viper is much more brutal. It (IMHO) outperforms my 1989 930 in all but the braking department. The Viper's AC works better than the 930. The ride of the 930 is much softer. Getting in and out of the 930 is much easier.
They are both very fun cars, but also IMHO, are very different. I used the 930 as a daily driver for a year and put about 10K on it. (It's now a garage queen with 55K miles) I have used the Viper as a daily driver now for about 6 months, including a 700 mile drive to Nashville.
Ignoring the cost of ownership, the Porsche 930 was more fun to drive fast on the public streets. This is because it is a very challenging car to drive fast, and turbo cars are just plain fun. It's more comfortable than the Viper and doesn't have the race car feel of the Viper.
Things that constantly remind you that the Viper is a street legal race car: Ground clearance of about 3.5 inches. It scrapes all over the place. You have to be very careful every time you enter driveways, go over speed bumps or traverse uneven ground. The steering ratio is very fast, so you need to keep two hands on the steering wheel and constantly be paying attention. The 275 mm front wheels will follow groves in the pavement. The 335 mm rear wheels mean that driving in the rain is nerve wrecking. My 700 mile trip from Dallas to Nashville was driven in the rain and was quite scary.
Some other big differences: the Viper gets way more attention than it deserves. The 930 is all but ignored. The 930 in 1989 had a sticker price of about $80K. Almost 10 years later, the Viper sticker price was less at $71K. There were only about 500 1989 930 Turbos imported to the US. I'm speculating that owning a Viper today must have been like owning a 930 Turbo in the late 70's early 80's. Back then is was the most radical thing around. Today that's the attention you get with the Viper while the 930 is ignored.
While the Viper is expensive it's probably about 1/3 the cost to drive when compared to the 930 Turbo: You can buy a low mile (less than 20K miles) Viper engine for about $7K. A factory crate new engine is $12K. A NEW transmission is about $2.5K. I can't even begin to imagine what a low mile 930 engine would go for maybe $20K?. A low mile 5 speed Turbo G50/50 transaxel would cost more than $8K I bet.
I have limited experience with the 993 Twin Turbo. But comparing this to the Viper: The 993 is a prissy technical marvel. The Viper is a tacky brute force beast. My 550 HP Viper will outperform a stock 993 Twin Turbo in all departments other than brakes (and safety in the rain). For $4K you can do a four wheel brake upgrade to the Viper and be on par with the 993 Twin Turbo's brakes on dry pavement.
And please don't go flaming my opinions. I still own the 930 and a classic 1987 911. This might not be the place to say it, but recently I have been turned off by the direction that Porsche has been going with their soft 996 water cooled Plexus, and the disgusting Cayenne.
The Viper is much more brutal. It (IMHO) outperforms my 1989 930 in all but the braking department. The Viper's AC works better than the 930. The ride of the 930 is much softer. Getting in and out of the 930 is much easier.
They are both very fun cars, but also IMHO, are very different. I used the 930 as a daily driver for a year and put about 10K on it. (It's now a garage queen with 55K miles) I have used the Viper as a daily driver now for about 6 months, including a 700 mile drive to Nashville.
Ignoring the cost of ownership, the Porsche 930 was more fun to drive fast on the public streets. This is because it is a very challenging car to drive fast, and turbo cars are just plain fun. It's more comfortable than the Viper and doesn't have the race car feel of the Viper.
Things that constantly remind you that the Viper is a street legal race car: Ground clearance of about 3.5 inches. It scrapes all over the place. You have to be very careful every time you enter driveways, go over speed bumps or traverse uneven ground. The steering ratio is very fast, so you need to keep two hands on the steering wheel and constantly be paying attention. The 275 mm front wheels will follow groves in the pavement. The 335 mm rear wheels mean that driving in the rain is nerve wrecking. My 700 mile trip from Dallas to Nashville was driven in the rain and was quite scary.
Some other big differences: the Viper gets way more attention than it deserves. The 930 is all but ignored. The 930 in 1989 had a sticker price of about $80K. Almost 10 years later, the Viper sticker price was less at $71K. There were only about 500 1989 930 Turbos imported to the US. I'm speculating that owning a Viper today must have been like owning a 930 Turbo in the late 70's early 80's. Back then is was the most radical thing around. Today that's the attention you get with the Viper while the 930 is ignored.
While the Viper is expensive it's probably about 1/3 the cost to drive when compared to the 930 Turbo: You can buy a low mile (less than 20K miles) Viper engine for about $7K. A factory crate new engine is $12K. A NEW transmission is about $2.5K. I can't even begin to imagine what a low mile 930 engine would go for maybe $20K?. A low mile 5 speed Turbo G50/50 transaxel would cost more than $8K I bet.
I have limited experience with the 993 Twin Turbo. But comparing this to the Viper: The 993 is a prissy technical marvel. The Viper is a tacky brute force beast. My 550 HP Viper will outperform a stock 993 Twin Turbo in all departments other than brakes (and safety in the rain). For $4K you can do a four wheel brake upgrade to the Viper and be on par with the 993 Twin Turbo's brakes on dry pavement.
And please don't go flaming my opinions. I still own the 930 and a classic 1987 911. This might not be the place to say it, but recently I have been turned off by the direction that Porsche has been going with their soft 996 water cooled Plexus, and the disgusting Cayenne.
01-17-2003, 01:52 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
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I have not one but two watter cooled Pluxus's and love them. I also owned a 99 Viper GTS that I loved. I agree with a lot of ewaves comments. I tracked my GTS and its only real weakness is the brakes. With upgraded brakes it's a beast! If I could only have one car I'd keep my 996TT; however, the Viper is a blast to drive...
Just my .02 worth...
Roy
Just my .02 worth...
Roy
01-17-2003, 02:53 PM
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Ewave--
What kind of engine mods are out there for the Viper? How much does it weigh?
I'm sure you know this, but your '89 930 can be modded if you so chose, sticking with the base flat 6 engine design, to numbers well above those you cite for your Viper. I seem to recall articles about Hennesey doing an extreme Viper, but in practice how many Viper owners modify their cars? 930 people do it, a lot.
For just one example, my 1978 930 makes over 700hp to the crank, dynoed, and it's perfectly driveable on the street, as long as my right foot stays reasonable. And I am not alone. In fact, the description you give of how your Viper drives is a lot like my 930, although mine is probably easier off boost. On boost is another story...
Couldn't agree more re the stock 993tt. But that car can be made to bite--hard--as well. Out of the box it feels a little heavy and GT-ish, to me.
The one thing I love about the Viper (NOT the new one), is the sheer chutzpah of its body design. I fell in love with the 930's look many years ago, and the Viper was the first car reasonably available to the public since then that also made me smile every time I looked at it. Still does. Great stuff.
What kind of engine mods are out there for the Viper? How much does it weigh?
I'm sure you know this, but your '89 930 can be modded if you so chose, sticking with the base flat 6 engine design, to numbers well above those you cite for your Viper. I seem to recall articles about Hennesey doing an extreme Viper, but in practice how many Viper owners modify their cars? 930 people do it, a lot.
For just one example, my 1978 930 makes over 700hp to the crank, dynoed, and it's perfectly driveable on the street, as long as my right foot stays reasonable. And I am not alone. In fact, the description you give of how your Viper drives is a lot like my 930, although mine is probably easier off boost. On boost is another story...
Couldn't agree more re the stock 993tt. But that car can be made to bite--hard--as well. Out of the box it feels a little heavy and GT-ish, to me.
The one thing I love about the Viper (NOT the new one), is the sheer chutzpah of its body design. I fell in love with the 930's look many years ago, and the Viper was the first car reasonably available to the public since then that also made me smile every time I looked at it. Still does. Great stuff.
