m42racer

Way to many things happening at this time. I did borrow a camera and took many pics of parts etc., but I do not know how to download and I did not get the cable. I will do this in next couple of days and post. Engine was dyno'ed and is now back in car. Can't wait to drive. Between my 951 losing its head gasket, this one and everything else, you always think you can do more than you can. I will post pics, and the dyno results this weekend if I can or Monday hopefully.

Simon

KeithC2Turto

Koening911

Thanks for the input.

Are you intimate/invloved with the build?

The part you are "guessing" about is what I am asking about.

I understand that he is removing the CIS fuel distrbutor, metering plate/arm, lines & injectors but it is not necessary to remove the intake plumping, including the air cleaner for this conversition.

One could just block off the mounting point where the fuel distributor was and not need to replumb the intake.

Not the best air flow solution but a cost effective one.

koenig911

Keith -

Not involved with the build but have considered converting to EFI many times.

You can retain the pipe that goes from the fuel distributor to the turbo and just add a connecting pipe to the 90 degree rubber hose that is between fuel distributor and stock compressor bypass housing (most likely removed since he has an upgraded intercooler). This is what PEM does. You cannot reuse the stock air filter box.

I am really anxious in seeing the results from M42racer and details of install.

m42racer

Finally got the photos taken and loaded on a disc.

Dyno results were better than expected. I have listed here what the engine dyno'ed at and what the final numbers are,as they added a little more fuel to be extra safe and backed off the timing a couple of degrees, as this did not hurt my final expectations.

3106 57.7inHg 457.6 tor 270.6Hp
3507 57.8 470.9 314.5
3863 58.0 494.5 363.8
4461 57.7 501.6 426.0
5093 57.2 503.0 487.8
5435 58.0 490.9 508.0
5732 57.2 439.8 480.0
6145 57.0 378.9 443.3

After some extra fuel was added and the timing backed off a little to be really safe the final numbers came out be

3055 58.0 448.3 260.7
3523 57.4 465.4 312.2
3996 57.6 487.8 371.1
4503 57.0 492.1 421.9
5004 58.0 495.7 472.3
5522 57.8 469.9 494.1
5760 57.0 434.9 477.0
6248 57.3 375.1 446.2

These numbers were given with permission to post by Performance Developments. The A/F ratio is now 0.80 to 0.82 and was 0.84 to 0.87. I am extremely happy with the results. I'm told I could probably run more boost and make more HP,but I have to be careful of my Cylinders. As can be seen, the engine tops out and I'm told this is probably because of the Throttle body and manifold and the exhaust I have. The camshaft was designed to run with these parts and was designed to give alot of low end torque and was not expected to be able to run high RPM's. It is unknown if the Intercooler I have will effect the power in the car. It most probably will. On the dyno they used their water cooled intercooler and the temps were around 75 - 85c. The engine was dyno'ed with 76 100 oct gas. I can get this at the pump near my house. If I run 91 gas I will back the boost down and hope I can run the same timing. They did try this and everything was ok, but with my Intercooler it is thought that I may get some knocking. The liitle knock display they have is really helpful.
I am having some trouble posting the pics, so if I can email them to some one here and ask if you could post them for me. Please send me an email and I will email them back to you. Many thanks for this favor.

Simon.

Speedwerx

Simon,

Excuse my ignorance but I am having some difficulty deciphering your dyno numbers. If you would, please provide us with your wheel hp numbers at 4000 and 6200 rpm.

Thanks,
Speedwerx

m42racer

My engine was dyno'ed, EFI system tuned on an engine dyno. I do not know if there is any conversion to Wheel Hp. Maybe someone will know. I have seen where the HP numbers have gone the other way. The shop that does all my general repairs installed the engine and some minor tuning was done in the car to get the idle a liitle lower and some other things that could not be done on the engine dyno. Sorry, I cannot supply the wheel HP. I don't have.

Simon

Bruce M.

It's a rule of thumb that drivetrain loss on a 930 is around 15%. Mine was 14%. I'm not sure what m42 means by "going the other way", but personally I have never heard of wheel horsepower being higher than crank horsepower, all else being equal. In fact, if you think about it, it's impossible.

Still, those are impressive numbers, especially on the torque side. Making 375 ft-lbs or so to the wheels at 3000 rpm is superb. I'm interested by the horsepower levels at that range, as well. A big gap, bigger than I've seen before. But torque stays very flat and hp catches up. That should be interesting to drive....

m42racer

I have seen where engine Hp has been calculated from wheel Hp, but I have never seen where wheel Hp has been calculated from engine HP. As the calculations are percentages, and we are using different HP numbers, so the resullts will be different won't they? I would love to know. The only way will be to dyno the car on a chassis dyno I suppose. How do you get cool air to the Intercooler on a chassis dyno?

My car has a four speed and so engine was configured to suit. The torque will help a bunch. I have not upgraded the brakes yet, but all of my driving will be street and no track. I hope I can get away with them. What do you think. If I can stop spending, that would be great. I'm extremely happy with the engine and so if everything else is ok, I'm done. Road testing with 91 oct gas on a really hot day with boost will tell if I have to buy a larger Intercooler and do anything with the Oil cooling. I am prepared to do so if I have to.

He's a list of what was done to my engine. What I saved on reusing the 930 manifold etc, allowed me to have this work done and still come within my budget.

Pistons modified for camshaft.
Cylinders/Heads O ringed and with PD Headgaskets
Heads ported.
PD Head studs
PD Exhaust studs
PD 51.50mm Intake valves
PD 49.00mm Exhaust Valves
PD Spring kit
PD Titanium Retainers
PD Camshaft
PD 930 manifold kit (eliminates the CIS system)
Link Engine Management system with boost control
Garrett ball bearing Turbo
PD Air Inlet with KN Filter
The exhaust and Intercooler that was on the car when I purchased it were reused. The Intercooler is a BB I think and the Exhaust is a GHL I think.

Now if it would only stop raining here in SCa.

Simon

Bruce M.

Huge fans blowing at full speed. I had my engine on an engine dyno and one week later on a chassis dyno in the car. Only difference was about 10 degrees ambient. Drivetrain loss was 14%. Tech had predicted around 15, as he does this a lot.

koenig911

Can you supply prices?

KeithC2Turto

Questions, questions!!!

1) The first number is it RPM.
2) Is the second number some sort of TQ #'s?
3) What is the third number?
4) Last number is FWHP.
--
5) What Comp Ratio are you runing?
6) What boost was the test at?
--
7) Is your TQ line almost straight from 3000-6000?
8) What cam & cam-timing are you running?.

Observations:
If HP is 500FWHP @ 15% loss should this be about 425RWHP ((500*(1-.15))=425rwhp

The torque line looks almost perfictly flat!

Overall, looks keeping the stock manifold was great success!

Bet the drivability/lag is much imporved w the BB-turbo & EFI.

WOW!

Keith

m42racer

Keith,

The dyno numbers I posted are RPM, boost, corrected torque and corrected HP. I asked about the boost today and their dyno reads in inches of mercury and the boost is absolute. I was given a conversion of 0.033864. That would make the boost 2.0 Bar or 1.0 bar on the guage if my math is correct. I asked for the compression ratio but was told that sort of information was not given out to post. However, I was told what it was and its not that high. I was told that the gas available dictates the final static compression. As work was done on the pistons for the camshaft, some adjustment was done to achieve the final comp. ratio. The camshaft is Performance Developments own design. One of the things I originally asked was about the camshaft. I mentioned all the normal cams, Group B, SC, 964 etc. I was told they were way past those. Final results seem to prove this. The cam timing is also not available. I was told it is often moved to suit each engine.

As I am not very computer savy, I asked if the pics I took could be posted for me. Performance Developments told me today several people have contacted them about this engine. They told me they would post the pics, but the prices are only available if you call them directly. Their tel. # 949 646 7461.

As can be seen, the engine runs out of steam around 6000RPM, but this was known before hand. I don't care as I did not want a high rev'ing engine and one that makes big Hp at high RPM. My use is around town and trips, no track. I know they could do this if I wanted that. If you saw the engines they build and who for, it tells you they know what they are doing. My very first post was because they listened to what I wanted and did not try to talk me into some huge HP engine. I've been there before.

Simon

koenig911

Billet Injector blocks are about $225-250 a piece. However cast ones are coming out in couple months for half the price.

So if you are in a rush have Neil make a set without the cis injector port.

Looks like there is restriction - manifold or intercooler since hp is falling off at top end. Lots of air from GT35 turbo and lots of exhaust from large exhaust ports.

Simon great job in your rebuild and you picked the right tuner to do it. Neil always keeps the more important info a secret. After all PD is home of the fastest 0-100-0 car - the silver 911 fetured in R&T and Excellence.

KeithC2Turto

Koenig911,

Could it be the cam design that is doing this and not a restriction?

K

PerformanceDevelopments

We have received several calls regarding our 930 kit for adding additional electronic Injectors. One of our recent customers announced our kit just a little before we ready. A couple of points to note.

This kit was originally intended for 930 upgrades where additional Injectors were required. We wanted to have better fuel distribution along with safer installation.

For engine conversions similar to Simon's, 450 - 500 HP max, this kit allows the removal of the CIS system and full electronic Injection to be added. Performance expectations need to be considered as the 930 manifold and Throttle body may be restrictive. This advantage was not the original intention, just a bonus feature for those not wanting to have to modify and fit either a Carrera or full Plenum manifold.

Simon has asked us to post the pics of his engine and the components of our kit.

Performance Developments

<img src="http://www.performancedevelopments.com/930parts/930_coils.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.performancedevelopments.com/930parts/930_engine.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.performancedevelopments.com/930parts/930_fuelrail_and_blocks.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.performancedevelopments.com/930parts/930_fuelrail_and_blocks2.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.performancedevelopments.com/930parts/930_intake.jpg" alt=" - " />