killed it, no spark
06-01-2010, 11:11 AM
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killed it, no spark
Well I had a great project on my recently acquired 84 930 (euro)
I ordered new plugs, wires, cap, rotor and Rennline stainless fan strap.
The plan was to clean up the engine compartment and replace the original
plug wires along with the cap, rotor, and spark plugs. All went very well except the removal of the old fan strap. I struggled with this a bit before I followed the Rennline suggestion of cutting it in half and then pulling the 2 parts
out. Well after I got it back together, no start, and determined no spark.
I checked everything including a short panic on my firing order until I realized the wires were in correct as the distributor rotates counterclockwise
on the 930. Took it apart again re-assembeled and I had it running Sunday for about 15 minutes and then it quit abruptly again. After double and triple checking all my wires and connections,
I am starting to suspect that I damaged the trigger wire (green wire going into side of distributor). I think I may have damgaged this when I was trying to remove the fan strap. It physically looks ok, but tonight I will try to meter this along with checking the coil too. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the ignition circuit for the euro 84? I'm trying to find where the trigger wire ends up so I can meter this.
This would help a lot,
along with any other suggestions...
Thanks in advance....
I ordered new plugs, wires, cap, rotor and Rennline stainless fan strap.
The plan was to clean up the engine compartment and replace the original
plug wires along with the cap, rotor, and spark plugs. All went very well except the removal of the old fan strap. I struggled with this a bit before I followed the Rennline suggestion of cutting it in half and then pulling the 2 parts
out. Well after I got it back together, no start, and determined no spark.
I checked everything including a short panic on my firing order until I realized the wires were in correct as the distributor rotates counterclockwise
on the 930. Took it apart again re-assembeled and I had it running Sunday for about 15 minutes and then it quit abruptly again. After double and triple checking all my wires and connections,
I am starting to suspect that I damaged the trigger wire (green wire going into side of distributor). I think I may have damgaged this when I was trying to remove the fan strap. It physically looks ok, but tonight I will try to meter this along with checking the coil too. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the ignition circuit for the euro 84? I'm trying to find where the trigger wire ends up so I can meter this.
This would help a lot,
along with any other suggestions...
Thanks in advance....
06-02-2010, 11:31 AM
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update on my ignition problem.
I was able to find the pin outs for the 6 Bosch CD unit.
My coax is fine, reads about 580 ohms at the cd unit,
coil primary is .7 ohms at the cd box.
what I have discovered is I am not getting the "whine" everyone talks about
(although my ears are a bit weak due to many years of trapshooting, pheasant hunting and loud music). I tested for 12 volts at pin #15 with the key on and this I think is my problem, it reads only .4 volts dc to ground.
Where is the source of the 12 volts for the cd box and are there any interlocks or relays that control this. I'm going to look for the infamous fuse 22 and check it too.
What is the resistance of the coil wire supposed to be?
My old one was about 1,000 ohms, the new one is about 600 ohms??
One other thing that may be a hint or clue here is
Yesterday I did try starting the car again just for the heck of it and it did not start but as I was turning the key back to off, it caught and ran for 2 or 3 seconds. I know there is a second ignition circuit that keeps the car running to burn off fuel when it is shutting down, it appears to try to run at this time.
It did this one time after sitting for a day and then one time additonally after sitting since Saturday.
I really hope to get to the bottom of this as my wife is telling me it should go into the shop and why did you "ruin" a perfectly good running car....
I was able to find the pin outs for the 6 Bosch CD unit.
My coax is fine, reads about 580 ohms at the cd unit,
coil primary is .7 ohms at the cd box.
what I have discovered is I am not getting the "whine" everyone talks about
(although my ears are a bit weak due to many years of trapshooting, pheasant hunting and loud music). I tested for 12 volts at pin #15 with the key on and this I think is my problem, it reads only .4 volts dc to ground.
Where is the source of the 12 volts for the cd box and are there any interlocks or relays that control this. I'm going to look for the infamous fuse 22 and check it too.
What is the resistance of the coil wire supposed to be?
My old one was about 1,000 ohms, the new one is about 600 ohms??
One other thing that may be a hint or clue here is
Yesterday I did try starting the car again just for the heck of it and it did not start but as I was turning the key back to off, it caught and ran for 2 or 3 seconds. I know there is a second ignition circuit that keeps the car running to burn off fuel when it is shutting down, it appears to try to run at this time.
It did this one time after sitting for a day and then one time additonally after sitting since Saturday.
I really hope to get to the bottom of this as my wife is telling me it should go into the shop and why did you "ruin" a perfectly good running car....
06-02-2010, 03:53 PM
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Without being there this a real stab but, is it the OEM spark box? Those things when they get older are prone to intermittently running as they expire. It's possible yours was weak and redoing the electricals pushed it over the edge. I'm only going by your last report that says you aren't hearing it whine. If that is your problem I don't believe you can get that OEM unit anymore, or if you can it's like the cost of a whole new car. There are some plug-n-play ones available as replacements though. I ought to start looking into getting one myself as I'm afraid my 85 Euro's isn't far behind yours.
06-02-2010, 04:03 PM
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Thanks for the reply,
I'm going to check into the aftermarket ignition after I find out why
I am not getting the 12volts needed to run the Bosch 6 pin cdi box.
I am suspecting the lack of power to pin #15 is the problem,
now I need to find the cause...
Thanks again
Tonight I am going armed with a good dvm
After reading a lot of the posts here, I'm checking the "run on relay"
all the fuses, cleaning contacts on all relays and connectors.
I really don't like the "hand grenade" approach but it may be a last
resort after I try to find the 12 volt missing gremlin...
I'm going to check into the aftermarket ignition after I find out why
I am not getting the 12volts needed to run the Bosch 6 pin cdi box.
I am suspecting the lack of power to pin #15 is the problem,
now I need to find the cause...
Thanks again
Tonight I am going armed with a good dvm
After reading a lot of the posts here, I'm checking the "run on relay"
all the fuses, cleaning contacts on all relays and connectors.
I really don't like the "hand grenade" approach but it may be a last
resort after I try to find the 12 volt missing gremlin...
06-02-2010, 05:02 PM
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Check all your grounds carefully too. The car is so electrical (notice I didn't say electronic) that if one of them is compromised you get issues everywhere. I hate electrical gremlins!
06-02-2010, 11:31 PM
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Got it running again,
Cleaned cleaned and cleaned, plug in connectors, grounds, fuse holders and fuses. After I reconnected the battery, I had a meter on pin 15 of the
Bosch CDI unit and I had almost 13 volts present. Cranked for a couple seconds and it started. Wish I knew which connection was the problem but
just happy its running. Lesson learned on an older car is when you touch one thing you may mess up others. This weekend I am going to re check all connections and add some dilectric grease to the fuse holders as they are
not the most positive connectors I have seen.
Hopefully it will stay running now....
Thanks for advise....
Cleaned cleaned and cleaned, plug in connectors, grounds, fuse holders and fuses. After I reconnected the battery, I had a meter on pin 15 of the
Bosch CDI unit and I had almost 13 volts present. Cranked for a couple seconds and it started. Wish I knew which connection was the problem but
just happy its running. Lesson learned on an older car is when you touch one thing you may mess up others. This weekend I am going to re check all connections and add some dilectric grease to the fuse holders as they are
not the most positive connectors I have seen.
Hopefully it will stay running now....
Thanks for advise....
06-03-2010, 08:12 AM
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Congrats on chasing down the issue. It's very possible doing your tune-up some pice of grit, or a disturbed/not quite connected connector was the issue. I've noticed in my fuze box the fuel pump fuze seems to be experiencing some high resistance/current issues. The fuze looks like c _ _ p and the contacts are looking a little sooty. Have to go through that this weekend too.
