Whats Faster ?
02-25-2010, 08:40 PM
#1
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Whats Faster ?
I know this is a difficult question to answer - but lets say the base car is a mildly modified 1988 CIS 930 like mine....
When I put my foot to the floor at 30mph and row thru the gears is there a huge difference between the 930 and a similarly modded 993, 996, 997 ?
I have not driven the others in turbo version....
Just killin some time before the Olympics start...
When I put my foot to the floor at 30mph and row thru the gears is there a huge difference between the 930 and a similarly modded 993, 996, 997 ?
I have not driven the others in turbo version....
Just killin some time before the Olympics start...
02-26-2010, 11:15 AM
#2
I would bet on the newer ones all being faster than the 930. Less lag, 6-speed trans, AWD etc. The newer ones are all heavier, but have alot more HP and TQ at a lower rpm. I have a 930 and a 996TT, and have owned a 993TT and can say that the newer ones I have owned were faster than my 930.
That being said, none of the newer cars approach the raw, elemental feel of the older cars, thus I still have the 930!
That being said, none of the newer cars approach the raw, elemental feel of the older cars, thus I still have the 930!
02-26-2010, 12:11 PM
#3
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As far as faster I thought my 06 C2S was quicker than the 930 and the 07 GT3 I just got is a monster in comparison (IMHO). There is something about the 930 that just keeps putting smiles on my face. Could be the iconic styling.....or the great exhaust even through the stock muffler.....or just that vintage feel. I'm sure its all of the above. With 20+ yrs of technology would say there would have to be a huge difference.
Bill
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02-26-2010, 01:59 PM
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This is why I ride Harley Davidsons, as opposed to some other manufacturer's motorcycles that run and feel like sewing machines. I want to know that I'm on a motorcycle, not a car on two wheels.
02-26-2010, 04:40 PM
#5
I think you guys are off base. A bolt-on modified 930 retaining CIS (cat bypass, headers, K27, 1 bar spring) @~380bhp is easily as fast as a stock 400bhp/3400lb/993TT or a 420bhp/3500lb/996TT. Anyone saying otherwise has not driven them both, or is not being honest. Now, the later TTs are very easy to get big power from with bolt on mods, but then you're changing the question.
My 965T with cat bypass and 1 bar spring is slightly faster than a stock 993TT or stock 996TT. And my car is a couple hundred lbs heavier than a 930, with no more power than a similarly-modded 930. Gearing makes a difference, but from a rolling start around 30mph the 930 will be fine. To the OP, there's your answer.
My 965T with cat bypass and 1 bar spring is slightly faster than a stock 993TT or stock 996TT. And my car is a couple hundred lbs heavier than a 930, with no more power than a similarly-modded 930. Gearing makes a difference, but from a rolling start around 30mph the 930 will be fine. To the OP, there's your answer.
03-01-2010, 07:40 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
I think you guys are off base. A bolt-on modified 930 retaining CIS (cat bypass, headers, K27, 1 bar spring) @~380bhp is easily as fast as a stock 400bhp/3400lb/993TT or a 420bhp/3500lb/996TT. Anyone saying otherwise has not driven them both, or is not being honest.
Now, the later TTs are very easy to get big power from with bolt on mods, but then you're changing the question.
Now, the later TTs are very easy to get big power from with bolt on mods, but then you're changing the question.
And it takes some big $$$ in getting at that "easy to get big power".
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03-02-2010, 11:42 AM
#8
Hey Mark...
One of these days you and I are going to need to have a conversation about Harleys vs.....but thats off this topic
Mark
One of these days you and I are going to need to have a conversation about Harleys vs.....but thats off this topic
Mark
Last edited by fullquack; 03-02-2010 at 04:12 PM.
03-02-2010, 05:03 PM
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I think it might be helpful to put some data behind the answer
The data that you see below is obtained from the same German magazines for most part except the stock 993TT data which is data I measured myself with my GPS logger.
The results might be interesting to some so here I am posting them.
The red bars are the time it takes these cars to go from 50~125mph through the gears (time read in the upper scale) and the black bars are the distance required to reach those speeds, to be rad on the lower scale in meters (conversion is ca. 3.28ft per meter) during that time.
For instance it takes the 930 stock about 570 feet more to reach 50-125mph than a stock 993TT, that's 40 car lengths in the space of <12 seconds. A 993TTS, which has only an upgraded ECU, will put a distance of almost 50 car lengths on a stock 930 within a time of <11 seconds.
So the difference is big I think, the newer cars are clearly much faster....but the 930 still remains one of the only really pure 911s. The distances are approximate, based on a model that I use, and basis the time vs speed recorded in the tests. They are a very good approximation.
Cheers.
The data that you see below is obtained from the same German magazines for most part except the stock 993TT data which is data I measured myself with my GPS logger.
The results might be interesting to some so here I am posting them.
The red bars are the time it takes these cars to go from 50~125mph through the gears (time read in the upper scale) and the black bars are the distance required to reach those speeds, to be rad on the lower scale in meters (conversion is ca. 3.28ft per meter) during that time.
For instance it takes the 930 stock about 570 feet more to reach 50-125mph than a stock 993TT, that's 40 car lengths in the space of <12 seconds. A 993TTS, which has only an upgraded ECU, will put a distance of almost 50 car lengths on a stock 930 within a time of <11 seconds.
So the difference is big I think, the newer cars are clearly much faster....but the 930 still remains one of the only really pure 911s. The distances are approximate, based on a model that I use, and basis the time vs speed recorded in the tests. They are a very good approximation.
Cheers.
03-03-2010, 01:57 PM
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So if you had a 930 turbo and for exampe a 997 turbo and they were making similar horsepower, why would the 997t be quicker? Gearing or power curve? The reason I ask is that in my mind the 930 weighs less and if it makes the same hp/tq why would it lose?
Mike
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03-03-2010, 03:11 PM
#12
Lagginess in the turbo and aerodynamics of a brick (compared to the others) with the 930????
03-03-2010, 03:28 PM
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Mike, the 930 has about 9.5 lbs/hp whereas the 997TT has around 7.25lbs/hp, that's an advantage to the 997TT of around 23%, which is very significant. Over and above this the torque curve between the two engine is vastly different given the efficiency of the new watercooled engine design and the VTG turbos, intake, exhaust, which all contribute to a much broader torque area under the curve.. Gearing, and tires too of course, aerodynamics are also slightly favorable to the 997TT (the 997TT is sleekier but is much wider).
03-03-2010, 08:08 PM
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Mike, the 930 has about 9.5 lbs/hp whereas the 997TT has around 7.25lbs/hp, that's an advantage to the 997TT of around 23%, which is very significant. Over and above this the torque curve between the two engine is vastly different given the efficiency of the new watercooled engine design and the VTG turbos, intake, exhaust, which all contribute to a much broader torque area under the curve.. Gearing, and tires too of course, aerodynamics are also slightly favorable to the 997TT (the 997TT is sleekier but is much wider).
