JEC_31

On topic: GT-R uses a jet fighter's worth of cutting edge electronic gizmos controlling a heavy AWD system that torque-tubes the power to the rear-mounted tranny (ala the 928!) then actually has ANOTHER driveshaft running back to the front to torque the front wheels if the computers (not the driver) sense it's needed. It works so well that the huge weight penalty is offset and the car beat the 997TT and the Z06 around Buttonwillow in the hands of Steve Millen... who liked it.

I've watched a couple scary Skyline vids... this thing will probably break the speed of sound on a Tokyo highway in the hands of some $$$-no-object tuner.

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+10 - C'mon, Cayman depreciation!

Cajun

That may all be true. But from the sound of it, the car has no "feel" or soul. It may be faster than my lowly 930 and all the other old world sportscars that I own, have owned, or aspire to own, but the truth is that once you get to a certain level of automotive "maturity", the latest & greatest boy-racer gizmos do less and less for you and you find yourself wanting to actual spend your time driving a machine that actually rewards people who can drive, as opposed to cars like the GTR who reward those that can set the computer and simply plant their right foot.

I have several friends who are import junkies, and they have repeatedly rubbed it in my face that the Porsche lost this comparison. To them I simply responded that for the 70k they are willing to plunk down on the GT-R, make mine a 993tt...they still don't get it.

Don't get me wrong, the GT-R is amazing. I have a friend who is on the list and I will certainly take his around the block when he gets it. The only problem is that within the next couple of years, another car that weighs nearly as much as my dually and loaded to the gills with technology will make this wonder car obsolete...but cars like the 930, the 911RS, the GT3, the GT2 will be timeless to those who enjoy actually controlling a car and not having a car control them.

BTW, I am with you on the Cayman. That car making 400+hp would be pure driving nirvana...

flatsixnut

You can justify the Porsche on looks alone. The GTR could be a decent car if it did not look like an Altima with a body kit.

UDPride

I think the GTR will look better in person. The Cayman photographs terribly from every angle. In person its much more impressive.

Wait until Nissan offers a GTR Spec-V version. They'll shave 300lb, add 30more hp and torque, reduce unspring weight, and tighten up the suspension. I doubt anything on the Ring will be able to catch it.

Daley88930

I am in the guns and Lawman camp from a general point of view. I have never seen a GTR on the street but they look beyond ugly in the magazines. I was at an event down here as an obligation to a friend and it was a pretty good car show. I was the only 930 and I was stuck between 2 really red italian cars( you know the prancing horse). 3 separate people wanted to buy my car including one of the Ferrari guys. But, the interesting pattern was that each person said they liked the original or old 911 body style and the 930 was the most wild model of the originals. Not one of them liked the new ones.
Porsche has diluted the Marque without question. I am pretty sure that F Piech has no clue what he is doing except he made alot of money and now he is about to do the job on VW(he might actually bring back the VW Phaeton--incredible) If I was a Porsche Audi I would be nervous.

DDD

[QUOTE=JEC_31;5286904]On topic: GT-R uses a jet fighter's worth of cutting edge electronic gizmos controlling a heavy AWD system that torque-tubes the power to the rear-mounted tranny (ala the 928!) then actually has ANOTHER driveshaft running back to the front to torque the front wheels if the computers (not the driver) sense it's needed. It works so well that the huge weight penalty is offset and the car beat the 997TT and the Z06 around Buttonwillow in the hands of Steve Millen... who liked it.

I've watched a couple scary Skyline vids... this thing will probably break the speed of sound on a Tokyo highway in the hands of some $$$-no-object tuner.

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I guess the question that the excesses of the GTR bring to my mind is whether Porsche could keep up with this hideously bloated and complicated Nissan platform by simply having a Cayman with a GT2 engine and a serious weight reduction program and fat tires at all four corners.

I bet they could keep up.

Ironically, Nissan represents the ultimate expression of what Porsche has been doing for a long time now...making heavier and heavier and more and more powerful and more and more complicated and costly technological showpieces.

Nissan has truly beat Porsche at it's own game with this bloated heavyweight GTR techno-thingie.

aeschen

Historically I have never liked corvetts and have always loved porsches. I very much like japanese cars for the price to performance ratio. That being said of the 3 cars I would take the corvette first, its by far the purest sports car of the group.

aeschen

A cayman with gt2 drivetrain would have zero trouble keeping up..............................with anything literally.

DDD

My greatest fear is that Porsche will again try to beat Nissan at its own game...

4000 lb. 998 TT anyone?

911rudy

The sad thing about Porsche, the company, is that they have a pecking order of their cars and have no interest in making a lower rung car ie; cayman into a 911 beater. Same thing with the boxter. The other thing that will be a nightmare for the GTR owners is the complexity of the car and its systems. Even though our old 930s have their problems they are nothing like the generation of "Check engine" light cars. That one light can go from a loose connection to a $5,000 repair. I think we have one of the most exciting cars for the money and one of the least complex super cars. I still like to imagine what a cayman with one of our engines and its six speed tranny would be like!
BTW, how do I make my avatar smaller?

pkrasusky

Point one:

Bzzzzt. Nope. Saw it @ NYIAS and, if somehow possible, it managed to be even more hideous in person than in the rags - BLECH (see below):

It is beyond ridiculously overstyled with incongrous lines / concepts throughout. Shame the old Skyline's used to look cool. This one looked like a reallyREALLY bad Aston Martin rip-off. Headlights that run near the full lenght of the hood? Why not? Puke.

Point two:

***WHO CARES***

When you boil it all down, perf. #'s aside - it's A NISSAN. Why does it matter if it can "beat" abcxyz car in one capacity or another. I own cars b/c I am attracted to MANY particular things one may embody - and absolute performance numbers are only one miniscule iota of the computation. Some of you guys here really crack me up. There is so much more to owning / experiencing any Porsche (even the new porkers) than sheer #'s. It's about the entire experience soup to nuts IMO.

I do, however, sadly agree that in today's age of saftey standard this and electrogizmo fart sensor that, that cars - verymuchso Porsches - have become bloated beyond reproach. Also agree the new set are entirely isolating and uninvolving - absolute performance capability aside. Saving grace is, sure, there really is nothing quite like beating the bag out of a GT3, GT2, or GT3RS - those remain purist's cars despite being slightly portly.

At the end of the day, Porsche's marketing blokes did in fact coin it best:

Porsche - there is no substitute

Hard to argue that, regardless of weights, Nissans, lions, tigers, or bears - oh my!

Sadly, this bench racing is sorta below those who are wise enough to choose a 930 for their steed - no? I can and do know better - YMMV 8-). Car's are fun for more than their #'s imply.

-Paul
www.krasusky.photos.us.com

UDPride

I dont think the car looks that bad at all. Certainly no worse than some late model Carrera cabs. Is it going to have German styling? No. Its not German. However it probably won't have German repair bills either.

I think the response when a car has nowhere near the performance potential of a Porsche is "yeah, well that'll teach em. Cant hang with the big boys." And when the car is on the same playing field or even completely eclipsing it, the response is "yeah well, theres more to it than just performance."

So either way, theres a built-in excuse. I dont give a **** if Daewoo built it. Its an impressive display of technology and performance at a ridiculously low price from a car company with rather rich history in motorsports in its own right I might add.

Last thing I said when I wrote the check for my pcars was "its a pcar, so that means something." It doesnt mean dick. Just because I drive them (among other cars) doesnt mean I think Porsche can crap thunder on command.

ye old 2 cents.

Micah

Porsche long ago over-extended the company's mystique. "Porscheness" may sell cars today, but I question whether or not it sells the lifetime of passion amongst owners that so many of us in this community appreciate. When Porsche produced the 986/996 and realized that the car's performance on the international stage (in racing) wasn't needed to sell mass quantities 'em, the mystique that the company had posessed since the beginning was gone.

Who is buying all of the 987s, 97s and Cayennes? If Porsche is selling nearly 100k cars annually, one would think that the enthusiast market would be exploding and the traffic on the forums for these models would be astronomical. Both the 996 and 986/87 forums crawl along day in and day out, and the reason is simple. It's not the enthusiasts who are buying these cars any more - it's the buyer who wants to park a Boxster next to their Acura MDX to complete their suburban dream. They don't want to talk about their car with other owners - they want to park it at P.F. Changs on a Friday night.

And as far as the cars themselves... how many of us have seen a Boxster with more than 100k on the odo? How about a 996 with that number? And if they've made it that far, how many of them have the original motor? At some point (and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it was circa 1997...) Porsche started producing throwaway cars for throwaway customers. And as long as the money is there (and it certainly is) the company doesn't give a hoot. As long as people keep buying, then I guess you can't really blame them.

I hope the GTR is every bit as good as people say it is. It makes me giggle inwardly to know that Porsche is charging $195K in order to get a car that can beat it reliably (GT2).

For comparison sake, the price split between the 951 and the Corvette in 1986 was negligible, and the 951 performed measurably better (the 930 was ~$20k more than either one). Today, a Cayman S costs 10 grand more than a Corvette and gets the hell kicked out of it by the chevy; the 997TT costs 70 grand more and isn't that far ahead performance-wise. What a shame.

Micah

DonE

I can't justify the price on looks alone - unless money is no object, then it won't be a Porsche. I'm not sure my 79 930 has heart and sole on its own. I think the driver has a lot to do with that. No doubt my car has some quirkiness unique to Porsche, awesome power and it handles like it's on rails, but it's still just a car (to me). After reading some of the posts here and on Pelican, it appears some folks can't get their heads around the fact Porsche got its *** handed to it. So what? The GTR seems like a great car, but so is mine. I'd like to drive the GTR before I make comments one way or another. Personally, I think some competition will be good for Porsche (and us) in the long run. That is, if Porsche considers the GTR competition.

timc1018

I've heard the Boxster/996/7, Caymen engines won't handle to many mods. Interesting how they are still using the basic 930 block in the good stuff... and the other block to sell cars and make money.