Anybody thought of way of getting heat into cabin other than WELDING on exchangers
11-27-2007, 04:39 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anybody thought of way of getting heat into cabin other than WELDING on exchangers
Looking at a lot of threads it seems that some issues with headers cracking is where the heat shrouds/exchangers are welded on to the header pipes..In some other cases headers splitting etc inside the heat exchangers where it cant be seen!
in my opinion the engine looks a lot more pleasing to the eye when the headers come without heat i.e no LARGE heat exchangers..So with a lot of us not using our cars in the winter months etc we dont require that much heat in our cabins(some of us also have heated seats
),,maybe we just need a little heat sometimes to clear some mist on the front screen!!
so i am asking the question if anybody has thought of any other ways or set up's for us to get just a little heat into our cabins other than heat exchangers welded on to our headers??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in my opinion the engine looks a lot more pleasing to the eye when the headers come without heat i.e no LARGE heat exchangers..So with a lot of us not using our cars in the winter months etc we dont require that much heat in our cabins(some of us also have heated seats
),,maybe we just need a little heat sometimes to clear some mist on the front screen!!so i am asking the question if anybody has thought of any other ways or set up's for us to get just a little heat into our cabins other than heat exchangers welded on to our headers??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11-27-2007, 04:49 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 7,568
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
3 Posts
All I can think of is some type of small electric heater that can be placed somewhere to defrost the windshield and the interior. I suppose the best place would be up front near the existing ventilation box, but don't know how that would work with the gas tank up front. I've seen some on a few Hot Rod/Street Rod websites.
11-27-2007, 05:21 PM
#3
We call it Eberspächer, its used in VW buses often:
their US site: http://www.espar.com/
there is another brand here: webasto
if you install this and throw out all the 911 heating crap,
you have a great functional system with all the benifits
of year 2007 technology, less weight and not expensive.
sure, thats far from original...
Falk
their US site: http://www.espar.com/
there is another brand here: webasto
if you install this and throw out all the 911 heating crap,
you have a great functional system with all the benifits
of year 2007 technology, less weight and not expensive.
sure, thats far from original...
Falk
11-27-2007, 05:59 PM
#4
Race Car
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England UK
Posts: 3,508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
11-27-2007, 07:47 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2005
Location: St Johns, FL
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spooky - this is something I have been researching for the past month. There are a couple of issues: what method of heat transfer, where to place the unit, how to tie it into the existing system (or stand-alone), what power supply, safety.
Here is what I looked at in no particular order:
Webasto - great alternative, but at +$2000 for the smallest unit, no thanks.
Weld on heat exchanger - I can make my own, but it would take time and would most likely not provide much heat due to the size I would make them.
Hydronic heaters - instead of using water, I thought about tapping into the oil lines either at the engine or up front. I like this idea a lot because it uses oil temp, but this will take some fabrication wherever I tap the oil lines. If I screw up, it could cost a lot of money to replace the oil lines. Here is an idea of what I considered: http://www.heatercraft.com/ProductIn...roductid=1111H
Hair dryer - yep, you're reading it right. I have a 2000 watt inverter (12v to 110v) that can handle a hair dryer and its 1800 watts of power. The hair dryer is cheap, puts out good heat and might produce fair airflow in the system. This past weekend, I used my wife's dryer to see if it could produce enough air flow through the system - it barely produced anything through the vents, but it was warm. Optimistic, I hooked up the inverter to the battery and thats where it failed. The size battery I have (Sears import battery) just doesn't have the power to keep the inverter going.
Here is what I ended up with: http://www.12vheaters.com/?gclid=CPy...FQUoZAod0FD8uw
I chose this because its 12v, it moves 102 cu ft of air per min and produces up to 650 watts of heat (or 2250 btu's). I can also mount it in the cabin and remove it in summer (I won't plumb it to the HVAC system). It's easy to install and our 70amp alternators can handle the load as well as the other electrical needs.
I looked at other 12v heaters, but most had poor reviews. I really don't care about the defroster as I haven't had to use one in 4 years. I just want to take the chill out of the cabin.
If this unit does not work, I will most likely fab a heat exchanger for my custom pipes since most of the plumbing is already there. Let's see....
Here is what I looked at in no particular order:
Webasto - great alternative, but at +$2000 for the smallest unit, no thanks.
Weld on heat exchanger - I can make my own, but it would take time and would most likely not provide much heat due to the size I would make them.
Hydronic heaters - instead of using water, I thought about tapping into the oil lines either at the engine or up front. I like this idea a lot because it uses oil temp, but this will take some fabrication wherever I tap the oil lines. If I screw up, it could cost a lot of money to replace the oil lines. Here is an idea of what I considered: http://www.heatercraft.com/ProductIn...roductid=1111H
Hair dryer - yep, you're reading it right. I have a 2000 watt inverter (12v to 110v) that can handle a hair dryer and its 1800 watts of power. The hair dryer is cheap, puts out good heat and might produce fair airflow in the system. This past weekend, I used my wife's dryer to see if it could produce enough air flow through the system - it barely produced anything through the vents, but it was warm. Optimistic, I hooked up the inverter to the battery and thats where it failed. The size battery I have (Sears import battery) just doesn't have the power to keep the inverter going.
Here is what I ended up with: http://www.12vheaters.com/?gclid=CPy...FQUoZAod0FD8uw
I chose this because its 12v, it moves 102 cu ft of air per min and produces up to 650 watts of heat (or 2250 btu's). I can also mount it in the cabin and remove it in summer (I won't plumb it to the HVAC system). It's easy to install and our 70amp alternators can handle the load as well as the other electrical needs.
I looked at other 12v heaters, but most had poor reviews. I really don't care about the defroster as I haven't had to use one in 4 years. I just want to take the chill out of the cabin.
If this unit does not work, I will most likely fab a heat exchanger for my custom pipes since most of the plumbing is already there. Let's see....
11-27-2007, 08:30 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 7,568
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
3 Posts
God ideas Don. I was thinking of the three ways to make heat: water, electrical and gas fired. Didn't even think about oil!
Water is out. Gas is too dangerous in my book, so that leaves electrical and oil. Seems like you could plumb some lines to the front trunk compartment and use a small oil cooler as a heater coil. A shroud would have to be fabbed to house a blower on one side and vents on the other. How to stop or divert the oil and heat would be the next question. With an electric heater, all the above applies but when you turn it off, it's off.
Water is out. Gas is too dangerous in my book, so that leaves electrical and oil. Seems like you could plumb some lines to the front trunk compartment and use a small oil cooler as a heater coil. A shroud would have to be fabbed to house a blower on one side and vents on the other. How to stop or divert the oil and heat would be the next question. With an electric heater, all the above applies but when you turn it off, it's off.
11-27-2007, 09:06 PM
#7
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Near Atlanta, Ga. Peachtree City
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I love it when new people discover an old idea. This has been a problem since the first auto came along. If it wern't for water we would still be cold. Forget the gas fired system for the obvious reason. How long does it take to get your oil warm, not hot, on a cold day? I don't think it would ever get hot enough to provide much heat. Remember the electrical formula P=IE. Power in watts equals current times voltage. Voltage in an auto is 12v so that leaves current in amps. Do the math; 12v x 100 amps = 1200 watts. We all know what 100 amps is, its a battery killer and for that you get 1200 watts. Most hair dryers put out more than that. And since you can't get something for nothing, going to an inverter dosen't help. That leaves a water based system with a pipe wound around the headers pumped to a water/air heat exchanger, (One small one on each side), and using the existing air flow from the engine through the heat exch. to the existing heat system. If done properly it could be removable in the summer and would not have to be real heavy. I figure on a tubular type exch that would fit between the two air ducts on each side. All we need is for Don or one of you other good welders to figure it out.
Trending Topics
11-27-2007, 11:58 PM
#8
Rennlist Lifetime Member
In the past I have used the engine oil cooler. Have you considered building a shroud around this and trying this method. It does not put out tons of heat but does work.
11-28-2007, 02:34 AM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Luckily enough a few of the guys across on pelican have been good enough to help!!
think the oil cooler method could be just what im looking for!
Will shrouding the cooler like this effect its performance in anyway though??
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=379547
think the oil cooler method could be just what im looking for!
Will shrouding the cooler like this effect its performance in anyway though??
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=379547
11-28-2007, 12:07 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2005
Location: St Johns, FL
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My engine oil cooler is removed, so that's not an option for me. Since I have equal length headers, I am thinking about building a box around the coil of pipes and reverting to the stock method of heat. I've stared at the bottom of my car for so long now, I can not see where I would place any other type of heat exchanger, whether it be oil or water. Otherwise, I would use an oil heat exchanger by tapping into the engine for oil filer that replaced my engine oil cooler.
