Another rebuild/EFI conversion
05-01-2007, 12:01 PM
#17
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Memorial Day weekend sounds like a plan 
That should be doable and looking forward to it. Will PM you shortly before then to make arrangements.
That should be doable and looking forward to it. Will PM you shortly before then to make arrangements.
05-01-2007, 04:36 PM
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Thanks Lincoln!
Yes, the car is 89 and the transmission you see (judging from a code stamped at the bottom) is a 1987 vintage G50. This car had had 6 prior owners and I know from pictures I have that there has been a RUF 5 speed in it too. That means it had to start out with a G50/50, RUF or whoever did the conversion swopped it to the RUF 5 speed, and when I got it it had the G50/01. Naturally previous owners had the full right to take out parts and put new ones in, so I am not complaining. I remember Chet once saying somewhere that some 10 or so years ago, swopping to a G50 was considered desirable. Maybe there are`reasons. My next mods, when I can afford it, will be coil overs and one of the following: G50/52 or preferably a G50/53 if I can find one. I guess a G50/54 would be OK too and preferable to a G50/52 since I now have this desire to have a 6-speed in it. Stephen also provided some 6-speed alternate routes in a thread at Pelican. But that's in the future.
Yes, the car is 89 and the transmission you see (judging from a code stamped at the bottom) is a 1987 vintage G50. This car had had 6 prior owners and I know from pictures I have that there has been a RUF 5 speed in it too. That means it had to start out with a G50/50, RUF or whoever did the conversion swopped it to the RUF 5 speed, and when I got it it had the G50/01. Naturally previous owners had the full right to take out parts and put new ones in, so I am not complaining. I remember Chet once saying somewhere that some 10 or so years ago, swopping to a G50 was considered desirable. Maybe there are`reasons. My next mods, when I can afford it, will be coil overs and one of the following: G50/52 or preferably a G50/53 if I can find one. I guess a G50/54 would be OK too and preferable to a G50/52 since I now have this desire to have a 6-speed in it. Stephen also provided some 6-speed alternate routes in a thread at Pelican. But that's in the future.
05-01-2007, 05:23 PM
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Chet said that the G50 had more suitable ratios (lower) compared to the G50/50.
Olli, I too have a G50/01. I wonder if you could confirm what 5th gear is like compared to 4th gear. On my car I find that there is a very small gap between 4th and 5th. Is yours the same or have my gears been swapped ?
Olli, I too have a G50/01. I wonder if you could confirm what 5th gear is like compared to 4th gear. On my car I find that there is a very small gap between 4th and 5th. Is yours the same or have my gears been swapped ?
05-01-2007, 05:34 PM
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Olli, Jean has a modified 993tt trans for sale cheap, but I prefer the taller gears of the G50/50 
less shifting= more time spent accelerating. Five gears are better than six LOL
less shifting= more time spent accelerating. Five gears are better than six LOL
05-01-2007, 08:13 PM
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Nathan,
Thanks for recalling more clearly what Chet had said. I have not experienced the same issue as you are describing, my 4th gear feels like it is pulling normally as one would expect the gear that is closest to 1:1. And although my 5th still pulls nicely, it clearly is the lowest ratio gear.
Lincoln,
Thanks for the pointer regarding Jean's modded 993TT transmission. I will send him a PM to ask about it. This is the way it normally goes, opportunities arise when one has already drained oneself. If it is a G50/53 or G50/54 I need to make a plan though. I hear you regarding "less shifting=more time spent accelerating" and also agree. That is true. The 6 speed has it's own pros regarding drivability for the roads though and mine will remain a street car even though I will go and visit the track from time to time. At least that is the plan. But, I'm 53 and never even seen a track except on TV, so, my track time might end up being more of a nuisance to the rest than anything else.
Thanks for recalling more clearly what Chet had said. I have not experienced the same issue as you are describing, my 4th gear feels like it is pulling normally as one would expect the gear that is closest to 1:1. And although my 5th still pulls nicely, it clearly is the lowest ratio gear.
Lincoln,
Thanks for the pointer regarding Jean's modded 993TT transmission. I will send him a PM to ask about it. This is the way it normally goes, opportunities arise when one has already drained oneself. If it is a G50/53 or G50/54 I need to make a plan though. I hear you regarding "less shifting=more time spent accelerating" and also agree. That is true. The 6 speed has it's own pros regarding drivability for the roads though and mine will remain a street car even though I will go and visit the track from time to time. At least that is the plan. But, I'm 53 and never even seen a track except on TV, so, my track time might end up being more of a nuisance to the rest than anything else.
05-02-2007, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by schnele
Olli I plan to hit the Tail of the Dragon thiis year if you are interested I will keep you posted.
06-18-2007, 11:12 AM
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To conclude this thread, I have had the car back for a few days and my expectations were exceeded.
Number one, I no longer feel the need to carry the towing company's business card in my wallet. The car feels confident, aggressive and drivable. I even don't mind taking it into the heavier stop and go traffic. Naturally all the positive ingredients of the 930 rawness are still intact like the steering and breaking.
I have been doing engine break-in kind of driving only with the boost set to 0.6 bar. That actually feels quite sufficient for the driving conditions that I have here. But I will turn it up to 0.8 once Speedwerks has finished with the additional tuning based on the data that is being logged now that I am driving the car.
There have been several initial pulls showing somewhat varying results, presumably due to the initial tuning process going on. The best 0.8 pull that I saw was 531hp which is the number I was targeting, only at about 1.0-1.1 bar, so that is why my expectations were exceeded. There was another pull that was done a notch higher that produced this graph:
I must hasten to add though that by increasing boost here will not get me any higher - maybe 10 - 15 hp, but that's about it. The reason is that my throttle body starts choking at these power levels. So, even though the boost may have been 0.9 here, 1.1 or 1.2 would not have gotten me any higher. In fact I have other charts where higher boost levels were used and the hp results were about 12 hp less than in the graph above.
So, a few points: only initial tuning done so far, hitting the limit probably at around 550hp, car feels great to drive, very torquey. I am extremely happy about the EFI conversion. Best thing I've done to this car so far. That is until the following:
I have purchased two 6 speed transmissions from a member of this board, Jean, whom I have had the greatest pleasure to make acquaintance with. When I took up Schnele's lead about sending Jean a PM to ask if I could buy a 6-speed from him, I never imagined that not only did I get a 6 speed, I got 2, and perhaps more important than that, an incredible wealth of information that he shared unselfishly and without regard to the amount of time and effort.
The 6 speeds are a G64/51 that is the transmission used in the 993TT cars, and a sequential 6 speed
that started out its' life as a G50/80 (993GT2Evo transmission) and was later modified by a company called GT Ltd which is now a part of the Ricardo organization. Here's a couple of pictures (taken at Speedwerks) of the sequential with the GT2 axles, the sports clutch assembly and the shifter:
Until yesterday morning I was dead set on installing the sequential at this time. Yesterday morning though I changed my mind and will have the G64/51 installed first. The reason is that I will be taking this car to Finland and the roads and conditions for normal driving in my hometown's area are not exactly conducive for a 6 speed sequential. So, I will have the sequential installed later when I am ready to do a track project.
But in the meantime, thank you SpeedWerks and thank you Jean for helping me get ahead with building my dream car.
OT edit: It was a great pleasure to meet a couple of fellow Rennlisters at VIR a few weeks back. Jim (A930Rocket) and Jeff (Sandman), very pleased to have met you and seen your great cars, and Brian, good to see you again
Hope we can meet up again one of these days....
Number one, I no longer feel the need to carry the towing company's business card in my wallet. The car feels confident, aggressive and drivable. I even don't mind taking it into the heavier stop and go traffic. Naturally all the positive ingredients of the 930 rawness are still intact like the steering and breaking.
I have been doing engine break-in kind of driving only with the boost set to 0.6 bar. That actually feels quite sufficient for the driving conditions that I have here. But I will turn it up to 0.8 once Speedwerks has finished with the additional tuning based on the data that is being logged now that I am driving the car.
There have been several initial pulls showing somewhat varying results, presumably due to the initial tuning process going on. The best 0.8 pull that I saw was 531hp which is the number I was targeting, only at about 1.0-1.1 bar, so that is why my expectations were exceeded. There was another pull that was done a notch higher that produced this graph:
I must hasten to add though that by increasing boost here will not get me any higher - maybe 10 - 15 hp, but that's about it. The reason is that my throttle body starts choking at these power levels. So, even though the boost may have been 0.9 here, 1.1 or 1.2 would not have gotten me any higher. In fact I have other charts where higher boost levels were used and the hp results were about 12 hp less than in the graph above.
So, a few points: only initial tuning done so far, hitting the limit probably at around 550hp, car feels great to drive, very torquey. I am extremely happy about the EFI conversion. Best thing I've done to this car so far. That is until the following:
I have purchased two 6 speed transmissions from a member of this board, Jean, whom I have had the greatest pleasure to make acquaintance with. When I took up Schnele's lead about sending Jean a PM to ask if I could buy a 6-speed from him, I never imagined that not only did I get a 6 speed, I got 2, and perhaps more important than that, an incredible wealth of information that he shared unselfishly and without regard to the amount of time and effort.
The 6 speeds are a G64/51 that is the transmission used in the 993TT cars, and a sequential 6 speed
that started out its' life as a G50/80 (993GT2Evo transmission) and was later modified by a company called GT Ltd which is now a part of the Ricardo organization. Here's a couple of pictures (taken at Speedwerks) of the sequential with the GT2 axles, the sports clutch assembly and the shifter:
Until yesterday morning I was dead set on installing the sequential at this time. Yesterday morning though I changed my mind and will have the G64/51 installed first. The reason is that I will be taking this car to Finland and the roads and conditions for normal driving in my hometown's area are not exactly conducive for a 6 speed sequential. So, I will have the sequential installed later when I am ready to do a track project.
But in the meantime, thank you SpeedWerks and thank you Jean for helping me get ahead with building my dream car.
OT edit: It was a great pleasure to meet a couple of fellow Rennlisters at VIR a few weeks back. Jim (A930Rocket) and Jeff (Sandman), very pleased to have met you and seen your great cars, and Brian, good to see you again
Hope we can meet up again one of these days....
06-18-2007, 11:24 AM
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Olli.. Glad you've gotten it on the road man!!! Sounds awesome!
Man, what I would do to have a 6spd!
That thing has to be insanely fast!
enjoyed meeting you Olli, wish we had more time to talk while you were there!
Brian
Man, what I would do to have a 6spd!
That thing has to be insanely fast!
enjoyed meeting you Olli, wish we had more time to talk while you were there!
Brian