cardsrule

Track help


I need some help or some support with my 79 930 on the track. Quick car background-IA E.F.I, k27hf, headers, .8 bar, coilovers, 235/315 avs sports ect. I have been tracking the car a bunch this year. Long story short this car is scaring the hell out of me. I am so worried about pushing the car over the limits that I am not having as much fun as I should. To make things worse this weekend the 930 was in the shop for the DE at PIR. So I drove a new Cayman. All I can say was WOW!!! It was so fun. Each session I felt faster (may not have been) and much more confidant, something that I don’t have with the 930. At the end of the weekend I wanted track time, with the 930 I am glad to be leaving in one piece. I know that a high hp 930 is not the best thing to learn on so I need some advice. Has anyone else learned how drive fast on a track with a 930?

I LOVE my 930 on the street but on the track… I am going to stick with it for this year but if I still feel like this next year I am thinking I might have to sell it.

Thanks,

Scott

DeWolf

We have a guy in our club here in South Australia that has a 450+rwhp 930 and he can get around our track ( Mallala) in about 1.16. This is as fast as several of the GT3's that get around there.
The 930 has some serious mods to suspension, brakes etc but it shows what they're capable of. In a straight line it would thump the GT3 and I'd say from a roll it would give the 997TT a good run too. And it still uses the 4 speed!

Maybe a race driving training course etc and let the instructor take you in your car. Just remember, slow in, a touch of sideways out, lol. I've never had that, " sh#t that was close" feeling in my 930 ( maybe I'm not driving it hard enough ) but I have in my 951! I can steer my 930 out of a corner sideway's in 2nd at about 70mph, and I am far from an expert driver. It takes practice. If your on a track just try holding it sideways through a few corners, once you have the feel of throttle steering you'll gain confidence. All FAST 930 drivers say the same thing," get it right and they are the most rewarding drive around". I can't wait till I'm one those drivers!

Daley88930

Spectacular but scary--I will stay on the street. But Thank you Porsche for these cars.

dholling13

What kind of supsension are you running in your 930? I recently added adjustable sway bars and Pilot Sport cups for my 964 turbo; I can't wait to take it out!!!

Gary R.

You need to be a bit more specific on what the 930 is doing to be "scaring the hell out of me", what level of driver you are, etc.

It sounds like you built (or bought) a high HP monster and expect to be fast on a track with it. A mistake on both counts as learning in a car with that kind of HP (guessing 400+?) will be hard, and if it isn't properly set up (big torsions, custom valved shocks, big adj. anti-roll bars, poly bushings/monoballs, proper brake pads and high temp brake fluid, corner balanced with track camber and alignment, etc. etc.) it will be a handfull to the best drivers out there. If it IS properly set up it still will be an extremely hard car to learn in because of the way a turbo's power comes on and your lack of experience.

As for the Cayman, it's a great car but make no mistake.. the CAR and it's computers are driving YOU around the track.. don't think you are learning much more than the line in that car. If you can afford a dedicated track car (depending on budget) you can get anything from a 944 to an SC fully set up in the 15-25K range. They will be safe and it will be you doing the driving. Or IF your 930 is prepared you may consider slowing down a bit and learning to drive 1st, go fast later... hopefully you are with an instructor at all times, yes?

Last930

I learned track driving in my mostly stock 79 930 mostly at Road America, over a few seasons. If it is scary, then slow down and work on smoothness - the speed will come. Try to get instruction from someone with both 930 experience and good instructional skills. They are a lot of fun on the track!

125shifter

I can relate. I haven't had my 930 on the track yet and I won't until I get the suspension sorted out. It's too darty and has too much bumpsteer. I also had heavy understeer through a corner yesterday. I just went through the suspension and had an alignment and corner balance. It's stiffer and corners flatter but it's not more reassuring. I have steering rack spacers, but I guess they're not enough. I think I'll try the Elephant Racing bumpsteer kit so I have some adjustability.

I feel confident in my driving and set up skills from karting. Enough to know I still have a lot of work to do.

Scott, what exactly is your car doing that's so unsettleing?

srf506

Its okay to be a little "concerned", and you're smart enough to be that before you roll your vehicle and yourself up into a big ball. If you don't have feeling of confidence in the car than you'll never be at your best. The 930, even stock, is a real handful to drive really fast all the time. Its one car you can't ever really rest in and its a car you have to learn how to drive fast.

I'd recommend you get an experienced turbo driver to take your car out for a couple of laps and give you some feedback on if its properly set-up and working correctly.

If you're still driving dual, and not solo in the DEs maybe check around and see if there's an experienced 930 driver, maybe the same guy who drives yours, that can ride with you to give you some pointers on your techniques. If you are solo, maybe you need some more dual time to get a reading on your current capability.

Good luck and keep us posted on how you're doing.

cardsrule

Thanks for the comments. I think Gary is right. I built a car that is too fast for me...now. My DE instructor has a ton of experience driving 911's and has been really great. We are working hard to get me somewhat comfortable in the car. I have not driving it really fast. When my instructor drove my car he was much much faster through out the whole track. I think I need a ton of time behind the wheel and take things nice and slow. I have moved up to DE 2 group with an invite to DE 3 but declined. I need to take it slow.

As far as the car goes, it has rsr coilovers. That is all I have done to the suspension. I would love to hear some ideas on what I could to improve this. I also have big reds all the way around, which I love. I have a tendency to late brake with them, which I am trying to improve.

I guess what scares the hell out of me is I have no idea where the line is. When I go into a corner I feel that I am going too fast and that the car is going to spin. I think some of this is in my head. I just have a hard time with the confidant with the car. I am taking it nice and slow on the track, many slower cars are pointed by. I just want to learn to drive smooth and fast.

I like the sound of a sc track car to learn on. And other ideas?

Thanks again,

Scott

dholling13

You are definitely right about being cautious, it's not a club race, there's no point risking your precious turbo. If you are seriously considering another track car, there is currently a sweet SC (G class car) for sale on eBay and through rennlist; it's Tim Costa's.

Maybe a change to sport cup or hoosier tires? I am going to DE my car this year for the first time. The first things I changed on the car were: Hawk brake pads, sway bars, and Sport Cup tires.

SGOGT4

It took me almost 2 seasons to get used to my 930 at the track. Largely because I put it into a wall at Road America the first year that I had it out! Getting back in, especially at THAT track, really taught me what it is about to be able to put things like that out of your head and focus on what you are there to do.

I am running RSRs on my '88 with stock sways and no torsion bars. 245/315 r-compounds. The car handles great. Hooks up very well through the corners and is very easily modulated directionaly mid corner with slight adjustments to throttle.

The threshold is very high on these cars however it takes a very competitant driver to get 8+ 10ths out of them (in my opinion anyways). Just slow it down a bit and get comfortable. The speed will come with smoothness and seat time. You may have the fastest car on the track but what good is that if you aren't having any fun with it?!

5-weeks and counting until my first track event of the season! This winter has gone on way too long!

Gary R.

Scott, sounds like you have your head screwed on right which is a big first step! Your comment about the line tells me you most likely simply need a lot more instruction to start with. Are you doing PCA DE's? The instuctors are usually pretty good. I don't get the impression your car is the problem at the moment so I wouldn't go diving into the modification pool just yet. Have you read any books such as "Going Faster" (good video too) and the "Speed Secrets" Series? It really sounds like you need to get back to the very basics of track driving. Straight line braking, slow into the corner, steady acceleration out.. repeat. The "line" at a DE is pretty well set in stone (unlike racing) and i'm not sure what your instructors are doing with you and how you have gotten promoted to where you are. I drive an SC and am in a VERY fast run group (Black). I pass faster cars all the time (and get passed!), it really has nothing to do with power... I like your attitude and wish I could do more but my best advice would be to read a lot, practice a lot, listen to your car/tires on the track. Ask questions!

cardsrule

I have done one event with PCA and four with the local NASA chapter. Both groups have been great to work with. All the instructors have been very helpful. I am running the line at PIR fairly well (I can close my eyes and run the whole track). I am getting to the point I know when and why I mess up on the track (I talk to myself a lot). I just haven’t got the feel for the car yet. It sounds like if I keep with it and take it slow I will be fine. I think I am/was just frustrated.

I have read “high performance driving” about 100 times. It has helped a lot. I will check out the other recommended reading. To go along with the straight line braking I have a hard time finding the same breaking point every time, but I am using fixed points on the track to help. Oh and downshifting while braking in a corner is something else that I need to improve.

Rob, not sure if you remember me (or my car) but I used to live in Chicago. My car is the blue one with the rs carpet kit. I couldn’t take much more of the winter so I left. Its funny but here the track season is half over.

Gary R.

Do you mean before ENTERING a corner? If you downshift OR brake IN a corner you are in for some big surprises...

srf506

Scott,
Keep the faith as you get more comfortable you'll get faster. Driving is 90% concentration. Maybe you're not ready to drive the car at 9 or 10/10ths yet, but as you learn and grow as a driver you'll be glad you've got that car under you. The human body and the car seem to have this innate ability to go wherever your head and eyes are looking.

There is no substitute for track time, in anything, even go-karts and your daily driver will help. Track driving is completely different than street driving as I know you're now aware. Its a learned thing, and some take to it a little faster than others. Just like everything else in life.

Another useful tool for you would be a data recorder on the car. Especially one that can do lap-to-lap comparisons. Then you'll be able to "see" when you did it right and where you're having problems. They're a big help, especially in developing consistency.

Don't get discouraged, try and get as much seat time as you can, in anything you can get your hands on. Do a lot of "hangar flying" with the other drivers, but be cautioned, drivers will exaggerate (I know, I know, hard to believe!). So, if someone is telling you he's in 5th or 6th gear foot flat on the floor in a particularly tough track section take it with a grain of salt, unless he's showing you the read-out from the data recorder.

Good luck and keep us posted on how you're progressing.