dholling13

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38D

I do think the car is the issue. You just dont learn very quicky on a 500+ hp monster car. It would be one thing if you had 100 DE days, but it sounds like you have only a few.

There are a couple of things you can try in your current car. First, try driving in a higher gear. This will effectively slow down the car and make it more managable. You could also detune your efi to make less power. If neither of those work, buy or rent a different car (250hp max). Oh, and if you don't have a full cage, race seats & harnesses, put them in immediately.


This is absolutely true for a beginner, but is a necessary skill for an advanced driver. You can't really trail brake unless you are willing to shift all the way down to the apex. Please dont any of you novice/intermediate drivers go and try this at home.

Gary R.

Listen ex-Turbo boy.... back to the Cup car forum!

38D

I'll go back when you post faster times than me

Gary R.

In my lowly little G car (2:21 as best I remember)??
Not likely!

Actually not likely in ANY car I have but ya never know! The turbo is shaping up quite nicely, gotta love polybronze, monoballs, and Smart Racing! Those 315's on 11.5" CCWs should help too.

38D

Lets see. Bigger tires, bigger brakes, and 400lbs lighter...yeah, you might be able to run 2:15s in that thing .

Ok, back on topic. Scott, I really do believe that you may have too much car. I rode with another modified turbo owner (who also posts here on Rennlist). He is much more experienced and did quite well. The issue is that his car is way too fast for DE. If you have a super fast car, it is easy to be lazy, as you can always use the power to catch people. My advice to him was the same: buy a slower car.

Dave 86 930 Fl

I did my first DE back in December @ Sebring and 38D's suggestions are right on. I turned the boost down on my car for less power and my instructor gave me 3rd gear only. This allowed me to concentrate on driving the car and learning the correct line around the track. Getting out of corners was a bit slow off boost, but who needs to go fast when you are really green. I had a great instructor (Bruce B.) and the car behaved well.

Regards, Dave

purplehaze.

Yeah, I thought I heard my ears ringing!

Hi Scott -

I think I'm the schmuck 38D referred to being lazy with too much power. He's right, as always. These guys are giving you great advice.

I moved up to my 930 from old Carrera because I wanted more power. Fool. I still had more to learn with maximizing momentum, honing the line, late apexing, etc. I'm still learning those things but now with more power - which can make it more difficult. It spoils you as you forget and use the loud pedal.

I think these are incredible cars with plenty of room for us to grow into. I like that you "get" that when you don't feel quite safe, you slow down a tad. That's smart. I hope you can learn (get feedback) on what makes it unsettling for you, and if it's really about to spin.

I encourage you to seek out a few guys that can really toss a 930 around. We've got a few local instructors who know how - and I've learned plenty. Still PLENTY to learn. It IS incredibly rewarding; knowing that there are no acronyms or computers managing the car, just you. You feel the car through the seat and the gas pedal controls the rotation. That said, I'm going to turn down the boost and get back to feeling the momentum (at least for the first couple sessions or events).

Gary is right, as well as quick. Speed has little to do with power; he should know as he's clobbering seemingly faster cars. He's taken the time to learn smoothness.

So yes, high HP 930's aren't the easiest on which to learn, but that doesn't mean you ditch it; just turn down the power and treat is more as a NA car until you feel more comfortable. Build speed slowly, build confidence, and THEN nail it.

Good luck!

Sounds like a great car with excellent mods!

Glenn

38D

Well, it's not that you were lazy, but really more that you'd catch the other cars in the run group so freaking fast. So you'd never get to go more than one corner "at speed". In your case, its not that you cant handle the car (you can), its just that getting to that next level will be difficult, as you'll never have to push yourself to maintina dominance in the run group. Now, it might be a bit different at say the Glen, where you'd might have to contend with some GT3 cups (your car is probably as fast, if not faster than a GT3 cup). So, when you have some other cars that push you, it makes it easier to push your own personal limits. When you're driving a 2:05 at the Glen car, there ain't many people out there than can push you! So my advice is to keep the car and come racing (or buy a slower car for DEs). You'll learn more in 1 weekend that you will all year doing more DEs.

Btw, Glenn was pretty darn good. I've not riden with Gary, but I've seen him go off on the "manly" side of big bend, so I can assume he's not too bad either .

dholling13

This brings up an interesting point and is directed at Colin; would you recommend a first time DE driver in a modified 964 turbo use sport cup tires his first time on the track? I purchased a set and have them on wheels and ready to roll; but have gotten mixed results on what to do.

cardsrule

I know what you guys are talking about when you say lazy. The car is covering up your mistakes. The guy in my group with the new zo6 will mess up a corner and just get on the gas and be right back with the group. The guy with the 120hp Honda messes up the same corner it takes him a full lap to get back up to speed. I rather be the momentum guy.

I turned the boost down to .8 bar, maybe getting a .6 bar spring would help. I really don’t drive with the throttle down that much. I don’t go chasing cars around the track; my instructors say I am great with point bys, which takes some ego management.

I have been thinking about the idea of a slower car to learn on (around 15k). I was thinking about a spec Miata but being 6’5 that was out when I tried to sit in one. I am thinking about a boxster but I would love to hear any other suggestions.

I should have been clearer with the downshifts. I know to only down shift in a straight line. At PIR there is an increasing radius corner that you have to downshift in because you are coming off the oval. You really are braking heavy and turning only slightly. I think that was more of a Cayman problem.

I like the idea of running in third. I will try that.

What do you guys think about running a smaller turbo that will spool faster so I get less lag? I am not sure if I would have to change the program with the EFI…Stephen ??

Thanks again for all the ideas and help. My next track day is with the PCA so hopefully some one else with be running a 930 as I have yet to see one yet. ?

DeWolf

I think this say's it all about fast 911/930's. Although I reckon he's just having fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIibbiDJMpo

Gary R.

Glenn is a very good driver, smooth and very consistent any time i've been near him. That car is fully set up (and will be even MORE so this season) and is a handfull. It has definitely slowed his promotion progress, there is no doubt about that either. I think it can hit over 600HP when cranked up (it's a Promotive TT).

Me, i've gone off BB both ways so don't assume too much Colin...

jimculp

Personally, I would not recommend cup tires for your first DE or your second. I would'nt recommend anything except street tires until you are in white or black group.

A couple of reasons for this:

1. Cup/R tires have less progressive break-away at the limit. This can lead to snap oversteer if you are not used to the car in a DE environment.
2. Street tires will "talk" to you more giving you more feedback on your driving and will give you warning when you approach the limit (which you should'nt come close to in your first DE anyway).
3. Cup/R tires can cover up mistakes you make- this makes it harder to learn.

This is my own opinion backed up by much more experienced folks advice to me.

Hope this helps.

aeschen

I only do track days ever now and then but I dont think Id ever take my turbo. I just dont think Id be comfortable pushing its limits and I certainly wouldent want to risk an off. Instead I take my subaru Sti, while only a lowley 4 door 4 banger it is a blast to drive on the track. It has very high limits and it wont bite you when those are tpassed. My point is that modern cars have come a long way since the early turbos. I think many people enjoy tracking turos for the challenge, but a more forgiving car can be quite a blast on the track as well. I know alot of the turbo's issues can be fixed and it can be made a track monster but at a very high cost. Also its kindof fun being waved by cars which are more of a "handful" in a "economy sedan"