Jean

See this is the main issue. This engine is being presented as a daily driver (not a race engine) that runs crazy trap speeds of 150 +mph, 1.5 bar on pump 93 octane gas (sorry not familiar with the winter blend), 750BHP+ at 1 bar on pump, 1200BHP+, etc...

What I see is a lightweight narrowbody 2700lbs at best 964 with probably 700+BHP at 1.5-1.6 Bar (you don't need more for that trap speed and weight) that has been run on a chassis dyno (that no one has seen yet) with hardly any load on the engine. As I said earlier even a dyno run won't mean much.

Simply put, you could probably achieve that sort of hp at 2 bars with all sorts of cooling gizmos, at 9000 RPMs but you cannot have both things, a street engine that has any torque below 5K RPMs since you need massive turbos for that HP on an aircooled engine, and an engine that lasts more than a few QMile runs..

If they are moving to road/track racing, this is when they will discover what real HP they have, and I can bet it will be closer to 500HP than 1000HP.

KPG

Maybe it was running a Boost Controller...otherwise I dont think it is possible.... At least you're consistent Jean, I thought you were only skeptical of the waterpumpers... Kevin

Jean

It sure is running a boost controller, either via the EMS or an EBC, and this is exactly why the engine would blow at 1.5 bar on 93 octane (maybe not the first few times), the ECU is not there to pull boost back in case of detonation, and it WILL happen with low octane.

The waterpumpers will maybe one day go beyond that 140mph posted trap speed, they just need a few more years that's all

A.Wayne

Jean are you saying 1000 whp is not possible from a 3.8 L Aircooled engine ?

Jean

A.Wayne, did I?

Porschefile

Simply put, bigger turbos is why it's possible. To flow 1153whp worth of air, that has to be 2 approximately Gt35r sized (61mm) turbos. Your twins are CONSIDERABLY smaller Jean. It's as simple as that. Even on low boost, that is a substantial amount of airflow volume. Say you have 2 cars, one with 2 350hp turbos and the other with 2 600hp turbos. At the same 1bar of boost, which makes more power? j/k

IIRC, I believe it was a 9.15 @ ~150mph that Eddie ran, on video, which was proven without a doubt (just waiting for the claims the video was sped up ). I think the guy has some idea what he's doing. It would definitely be nice to see a dyno sheet but oh well. 22psi on pump gas isn't that unbelievable. There are plenty of things like water injection, aftermarket EMS, etc that can allow you to fine tune things to reach boost pressures close to that (even on an "inefficient" 2v motor) on pump gas. I'd tend to think that 22psi would probably be about as high as you could go on pump though because of the inherent inefficiencies with these 2v motors compared to the much more advanced 4v stuff on modern cars today.

Jean

Porschefile.

Sorry I have to correct you as you seem misinformed.
My turbos are the same compressor size of a GT30, so not that much smaller. I have the data from a twin turbo sister engine to mine with GT35Rs and know what output they have at 1 Bar, and at 1.5 Bar as well. I am not comparing to my engine, maybe Bello knows better, but I would give him 10-20hp over my larger sized engine at the same boost if he is a genius, not 150, at least not on an engine dyno and definitely not on pump gas.

But that does not really matter, since it is not the issue at stake. A larger turbo at 1 bar and same RPMs will give you less torque not more as the turbine takes more time to spin the heavier compressor.

The debate is not about whether Bello can run those numbers, I said that long ago, I know he can, the debate is whether this car can have that HP at that boost level and whether this car can have 1150rwhp while being a nice drivable daily car as pictured. They are mutually exclusive, and anyone who has pushed the envelop far enough will know that the cams that you need, the size of the turbos, the exhaust and the intake system do not make a combo for the street.

As to the 9.15s car, Bello can also claim what he likes but I have first hand information that his car did not even have a stock steel floor panel, it was cut out and replaced and covered by lightweight material, nothing was stock on that car and it did not weigh North of 1900lbs, again, it is not the subject of the conversation. I am very very HAPPY that an aircooled 911 car got there thanks to him!! Believe me.

Does that take any merit out of his record? Of course not. But it also does not mean he had 1000rwhp, which is what I am interested in.

I hope this is now clear, I would not like to repeat myself over and over again, I am just saying keep the claims and data real, get the credit for the runs from everyone here, and that video is not proving anything more than a lightweight 500fwhp car blasting from God knows what speed to what speed, and maybe at its highest boost setting, not at 1 bar. Or maybe not, who knows? '

Dyno charts? Please not.

DeWolf

Someone needs to build 4V heads, ala 959, without liquid cooling, and billet grind a cam to suit

interesting off topic article: http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=15223

origyns

Editted.

origyns

Editted.

origyns

Editted.

KPG

From a phone call last night....it may be sooner than you would believe Kevin

KPG

Origins, with all due respect, that is the most naive statement concerning dynos that I have ever heard. Dont get me wrong, unlike Jean I think they are a valuable tool when combined with track times, 60-130 times etc to give a good estimation of power, but they are capable of being manipulated very easily. Just start with correction factors and go from there....Kevin

Jean

Origyns, I am not skeptic, I am just maybe twice your age and experience. You are caught at your own game and just do not know how to get out of it, keep digging.

I will be more than happy to go see you and Eddie in NY, I go quite often, just don't expect me to waste anytime on your dynojet. We'll weigh your car, slap an AX22 there and check out your boost guage and then bet $50k if conditions are met as you claim on this thread and video, how much fun is that? A 3100lbs 964 at 1 Bar and a 2 shift 7 seconds 60-150mph, no NOS, deal? You will need to put a bank guarantee though. We can get a crowd of my buddies there and yours too if you wish for the record.

Careful because once you say ok, you don't pull out, you will embarass yourself.

I am sure you do not laugh nearly as hard as I do when I read your posts over and over again. Maybe a bit surprised that people know about your cut out floor? Some of your close circle buddies seem to talk huh? Have fun finding it out now.

My intake? Stock CIS stuff but I had it polished with stock but ported headers, and 3 angle valve job, is that enough for 1000rwhp you think? Oh and I have a huge intercooler on which I put some ice cubes when I run
Do some research.

A.Wayne

All dyno's can be manipulated , some more than others , as the numbers will vary from dyno to dyno , ,bello will have to exceed 32 psi to see those numbers , I say if he does it will make 1100 + whp , i would also like to add , Bello's boost gauge start's at 30 psi .

Do a dyno shootout or race and get it over with ...