Jean

Orygins, I beg you to stop. I have never seen so much misinformation in one thread since joining Rennlist. I had decided to stop commenting because you are a nice guy, but here you are simply putting other peoples' money at risk if they listen to you.

Any engine can certainly run at 1.5 bar on 93 Octane, until it explodes from detonation a few days later if you are lucky. You are not even running Motronic controlling knock sensors, you can be good but you are not magicians. I now feel bad for whoever bought that engine that you sold.

If Eddie Bello supports your statetments that would not speak too highly of his engine building knowledge.

Sorry to be so blunt but I just can't stay put and listen to all this while people are in awe.

origyns

Editted.

origyns

Editted.

ProtoCab

Protomotive build some pretty impressive big HP motors too, but tend to limit their builds to 1.25bar for longevity. Sure, you can run more boost, but that's only if you have the $$$$ to do engine tear-downs every year

And of course, let's not forget the bigger the snails, the more HP you get at the same boost pressure.

I believe VRAlexander's 996TT runs dual GT35R's!!!

JEC_31

(subscribing, head low to duck the mortar fire)

911T

doesn't proto run 1.4 bar on pump gas w/ pressure sensing?

ProtoCab

Yes, up to 1.4bar, but that may be on race gas... on pump grade fuel, it's recommended to run at ~1.25bar for longevity.

A.Wayne

650 whp at 1 bar is achievable , on the high side but achievable... on a fully built and prepared race motor. for eddie to hit 1000 whp he would have to be at approx 32 psi, this is based on his power putput at 1 Atm.

A.Wayne

This is on a 4v watercooled engine , a lot different on a 2 v aircooled engine , i would expect to see more from the 996 engine everywhere

ProtoCab

Absolutely! I was referring to Protomotive's air cooled twin turbo systems. I know Protomotive run higher boost on their water cooled 996tt systems. Just check out:

http://www.geocities.com/protomotive/dynos.html

It's all a matter of efficiencies and how the motor/heads are able to dissipate the heat away

That's why the Japanese import scene run 40+ psi boost! More efficient heads & water pumpers

A.Wayne

I'm not aware of any protomotive aircooled porsche making that kind of whp on pump gas , would love to see it !

SoCal Mike

1.5 bar on our lame 91 octane?

Must have been our $8.99 gal, Unocal 76 100 oct unleaded.

Jean

That dyno chart on the Protomotive site is my engine dyno. This was done with 104 Octane , a 3.8 liter engine with twin plug pressure sensing running Motronic and knock sensors. This is an engine dyno reading not chassis dyno reading.

My engine has about 5% larger displacement, aggressive cams and almost everything that can be done to an aircooled engine and shows 300HP per absolute bar with pump fuel, that is like a 3.8 ltrs 964RS efficiency, the 964 3.6 ltr engine had 285HP/Absolute bar. At 1 bar of boost that equates to about 600FWHP. How can a 3.6 engine have almost 150FWHP more than my larger engine at the same boost levels...Of course assuming that my tuner is not a newbie, which judging by the performance he is not.

I am not saying that if my tuner cannot do it no one can, but there is logic that tells you that this is impossible on these aircooled 2V engines, this is why they moved to watercooled 4V engines, to go beyond the 8.5 hp/lb/min of air that these engines can produce.

I sure can show you 800HP at 1 Bar on a 5 second chassis dyno run with discretionary correction factors and no standards used, so at this point in the conversation no chassis dyno charts will mean anything at all.

On 104 octane race fuel my engine had an output of 330HP/absolute bar. At 2 Bar Absolute (1 Bar of boost) that equates to 660FWHP on 104 Octane at 1 BAR. Again, all of this is on an engine dyno.

My car runs 60-130mph in 6.6 seconds at 1.1 Bar (datalogged, not stop watch video), that is a calculated about 620+ real HP at the flywheel for its weight. This car in the video ran about a 7 second 60-130mph or so with 400lbs less, give and take, assuming it was at 1 Bar on pump fuel, we are talking about 500HP or so.

Why not show us a full fledge rolling run with race fuel and get the speculation about what it can do out?

Let us not forget the weight factor!!

I have knock sensors yet never run my car above 1 Bar on pump fuel, these were instructions given by my tuner who has built a few High HP engines in the last 20 years. When I want to go to 1.2 Bar I have to move to 100 octane or 104, not because I can't run it otherwise, but because I want my engine to last more than 2k miles.

If this car had variable boost control through Motronic then there could be chances of it surviving at 1.5 Bar on 93 octane. It is not the case.

This is a fast car that is very lightweight, let's just keep the claims within a reasonable level.

38D

It is the 1153 number that is really absurd. A flat 6 motor with that much power (if it could even exist) would last a tens of minutes at best.

Tippy

One factor you have to look at is this is a DRAG car, the motor only has to withstand these levels of boost and low octane in short burst. The intercooler should not heat soak too much, that is probably how he is getting away with that much boost and pump gas.