Front oil cooler ?
09-28-2006, 12:13 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
The PO installed a front oil cooler. It's mounted right against the tub behind a C2 fiberglass bumper with two holes for air flow.
It cools remarkably well with no air gap behind it, but I will be spacing it out some.
It cools remarkably well with no air gap behind it, but I will be spacing it out some.
09-28-2006, 01:10 PM
#17
Shockm,
Nice job. Whose coolers are those? Are they both the same? Are you using -12 or -16 oil lines?
Bjorne,
I'm with you on cutting the tub. Truly a last resort. From the off-course excursion standpoint, I don't think it makes any difference whether your cooler is mounted to the tub, bumper, or valence. What matters more, in my opinion, is that the cooler be securely mounted and that it not deflect or vibrate under wind and road loads. In my case, the valence is way too flimsy to hang anything from it. And I wouldn't want to cantilever it from the top either, so it made sense to mount it to four small rubber-centered standoffs with aluminum brackets. The lower brackets are strong enough to hold the cooler properly, but will deflect in the event of a minor off-track excursion, hence providing some crush space protection to the cooler. In a big hit it will be toast, but then again, so will I, so I probably won't care.
A930,
That's a lot of cooling. Do you have the engine-mounted cooler still? Are you running all three coolers in series with -12 line?
Here's a pic of a front mount to the tub that I found on one of the boards. It's somewhat similar to how mine is mounted, though I have rubber isolators.
Nice job. Whose coolers are those? Are they both the same? Are you using -12 or -16 oil lines?
Bjorne,
I'm with you on cutting the tub. Truly a last resort. From the off-course excursion standpoint, I don't think it makes any difference whether your cooler is mounted to the tub, bumper, or valence. What matters more, in my opinion, is that the cooler be securely mounted and that it not deflect or vibrate under wind and road loads. In my case, the valence is way too flimsy to hang anything from it. And I wouldn't want to cantilever it from the top either, so it made sense to mount it to four small rubber-centered standoffs with aluminum brackets. The lower brackets are strong enough to hold the cooler properly, but will deflect in the event of a minor off-track excursion, hence providing some crush space protection to the cooler. In a big hit it will be toast, but then again, so will I, so I probably won't care.
A930,
That's a lot of cooling. Do you have the engine-mounted cooler still? Are you running all three coolers in series with -12 line?
Here's a pic of a front mount to the tub that I found on one of the boards. It's somewhat similar to how mine is mounted, though I have rubber isolators.
09-28-2006, 03:15 PM
#18
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I have the same front oil cooler as you Rob.
I still have my engine mounted oil cooler.
I wanted more oil cooling (and capacity, although it's a small amount). All lines are -12 so far. I was thinking about changing to -16 when I install the third oil cooler.
With the heat I experienced last summer at the track, I wanted plenty of cooling. Plus it gets plenty hot here in SC during the summer time. I can add block off plates if needed during the winter.
A930,
That's a lot of cooling. Do you have the engine-mounted cooler still? Are you running all three coolers in series with -12 line?
Here's a pic of a front mount to the tub that I found on one of the boards. It's somewhat similar to how mine is mounted, though I have rubber isolators.
I still have my engine mounted oil cooler.
I wanted more oil cooling (and capacity, although it's a small amount). All lines are -12 so far. I was thinking about changing to -16 when I install the third oil cooler.
With the heat I experienced last summer at the track, I wanted plenty of cooling. Plus it gets plenty hot here in SC during the summer time. I can add block off plates if needed during the winter.
Originally Posted by Rob S
A930,
That's a lot of cooling. Do you have the engine-mounted cooler still? Are you running all three coolers in series with -12 line?
Here's a pic of a front mount to the tub that I found on one of the boards. It's somewhat similar to how mine is mounted, though I have rubber isolators.
09-28-2006, 03:34 PM
#19
A930,
You're scaring me. Do you mean that you didn't have enough cooling with a Carrera fender cooler, a Setrab 272 and an engine cooler? And you have a CIS engine? I have no engine cooler, a Fluidyne fender cooler(equivalent, I think to a Carrera cooler), and a Setrab 272, plumbed with a mixture of factory metric and Aeroquip -12 lines, all on an EFI engine that produces at least 550 hp on the track. I expected those two coolers would be enough. I guess I better prepare to install a third cooler. But I have gone to great lengths to duct and contain the air properly, so I can still hope it will be enough. I guess I'll try it and find out.
For reference, RSRS has a track 930 with three coolers (their exact identities I don't recall), arranged in series like we're talking about, all with -12 lines. And it works fine for him and stays cool on the hottest summer days around here, I'm told. But our summer is not as hot as your summer.
You're scaring me. Do you mean that you didn't have enough cooling with a Carrera fender cooler, a Setrab 272 and an engine cooler? And you have a CIS engine? I have no engine cooler, a Fluidyne fender cooler(equivalent, I think to a Carrera cooler), and a Setrab 272, plumbed with a mixture of factory metric and Aeroquip -12 lines, all on an EFI engine that produces at least 550 hp on the track. I expected those two coolers would be enough. I guess I better prepare to install a third cooler. But I have gone to great lengths to duct and contain the air properly, so I can still hope it will be enough. I guess I'll try it and find out.
For reference, RSRS has a track 930 with three coolers (their exact identities I don't recall), arranged in series like we're talking about, all with -12 lines. And it works fine for him and stays cool on the hottest summer days around here, I'm told. But our summer is not as hot as your summer.
09-28-2006, 07:43 PM
#20
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I think my biggest issue last time out (July 4th at VIR) was that it was hot at 90-95 degrees and I was driving the snot out of my car. In addition, I was getting a lot of blow by and maybe the fan belt was slipping. Not sure what came first though, the heat cooking my engine or my engine just expiring.
End result was that I needed to rebuild my engine, but it always seemed to get warm in traffic anyway.
End result was that I needed to rebuild my engine, but it always seemed to get warm in traffic anyway.
09-29-2006, 11:22 AM
#21
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The thing I worry about putting coolers in series is the pressure drop each cooler is additive. If each cooler has a 2 pound pressure drop, then 3 coolers yield 6 psi drop. shouldn't they be placed in parallel? The hosing requrements would be smaller for each cooler that would fit off the distribution block.
09-29-2006, 12:40 PM
#22
Dave,
I've been interested in this debate as well. The problem with parallel installations is that it requires a whole lot more plumbing, which is heavy, expensive, and takes up space. And if the coolers have different pressure drops (as will often be the case), then the majority of oil will follow the path of least resistance and negate some of the cooling capacity of the system. Of course, it could also be argued that when the coolers are in series, the first one is most effective, because the delta T is highest for it. So, I'm not sure what the answer is, but series installations seem to work, with hundreds of successful two-in-a-series installations and at least one example I can point to with three coolers in series that seems to work just fine from the standpoint of both cooling and oil pressure. The right way to figure this out is with instrumentation and measurements that most of us are just not willing to invest in. So, we do the usual "looking over our shoulder" engineering to see what has worked for others.
Rob
I've been interested in this debate as well. The problem with parallel installations is that it requires a whole lot more plumbing, which is heavy, expensive, and takes up space. And if the coolers have different pressure drops (as will often be the case), then the majority of oil will follow the path of least resistance and negate some of the cooling capacity of the system. Of course, it could also be argued that when the coolers are in series, the first one is most effective, because the delta T is highest for it. So, I'm not sure what the answer is, but series installations seem to work, with hundreds of successful two-in-a-series installations and at least one example I can point to with three coolers in series that seems to work just fine from the standpoint of both cooling and oil pressure. The right way to figure this out is with instrumentation and measurements that most of us are just not willing to invest in. So, we do the usual "looking over our shoulder" engineering to see what has worked for others.
Rob
09-29-2006, 01:09 PM
#23
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I hadn't thought about a pressure drop. Maybe I need to start with -12 for the first one or two and at then move up to -16 for the last and and to get it back to the hard line? Or just use -16 for all.
09-29-2006, 01:29 PM
#24
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Only in parallel could you go smaller dia tubing after you split.
In series stick with what you started with, there will be no benefit going larger dia unless they are bends. The cooler will be the restriction.
In series stick with what you started with, there will be no benefit going larger dia unless they are bends. The cooler will be the restriction.
09-29-2006, 01:53 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Anyone happen to know web site for this prefab'ed mocal tub cutout piece for oil cooler? ...couldn't find.
I run engine oil cooler, factory multi-tube one in fender (no air ducted to it), and b&b 24" one mounted few inches from tub and very seldom get over 180F in races. ...really hot humid days, maybe 200. ...depends how much HP you're banging out too -- mine ~420 rwhp.
cut out euro lisc. plate holder location in 964turbo bumper and you have perfect opening.
I run engine oil cooler, factory multi-tube one in fender (no air ducted to it), and b&b 24" one mounted few inches from tub and very seldom get over 180F in races. ...really hot humid days, maybe 200. ...depends how much HP you're banging out too -- mine ~420 rwhp.
cut out euro lisc. plate holder location in 964turbo bumper and you have perfect opening.
Last edited by JoeMag; 12-18-2012 at 01:15 PM.
