930 IN JUNE EXCELLENCE
05-03-2006, 11:50 PM
#16
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I am going to buy the mag...seems like a worthy read.
05-04-2006, 12:54 PM
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The numbers posted are in fact to the wheels. When I spoke to Rob at S Car Go he assured me that the Garrett ball bearing turbo spooled faster and came on stronger than any modified zero clearance turbo could. I am doing an EFI build and I am utilizing Stephen and Kevin's HF2 K27 based turbo, does anyone have any input on one or the other?
05-04-2006, 12:58 PM
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Motronic can not work as a piggyback. Though some EFI's do, which is not too appealing to me. S-Car-Go is a Protomotive dealer, hence the system they used on the 930 slant. I do live very near to a protomotive dealer which is a bonus and they prefer Motronic for obvious reasons. I do not have any shop capable of installing EFI near me. Short of a radical Motronic program that Protomotive uses, Motronic has been around since the 70's so almost any Porsche shop can work on it.
Craig
Craig
05-08-2006, 06:12 AM
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If it helps clarifying a few things, I live around 7k miles away from Protomotive and have the same pressure sensing setup and software out of 993 N/A Motronic ECU on my 993TT, only with a more aggressive tune. The car could not run better. Like any pressure sensing setup, future changes done to the hardware will need a recalibration.
As far as the distance, I have the same flexibility as any aftermarket ECU in a sense that Protomotive sends me the files over the internet and I simply burn a chip in 30 seconds and install it in my ECU box. I have several programs I can run with.
I have yet to see a faster car out there running such low boost with the added safety of Bosch knock sensors.
This is a similar setup the factory 993GT2 EVO used in racing and the reason not more people run it is because they cannot program it easily. There are a few out there that can help of course in case something hapens to the tuner.
This featured car must have smaller Super 60 turbos maybe and with the higher compression, you will get monster torque down low I guess, but until you have experienced one of these Motronic pressure sensing cars you really won't know how great they are. Edpurplett has a very similar (Motronic, high compression, smaller turbos, GT2 cams...) configuration only with MAF instead of pressure sensing on one of his TTs.
As far as the distance, I have the same flexibility as any aftermarket ECU in a sense that Protomotive sends me the files over the internet and I simply burn a chip in 30 seconds and install it in my ECU box. I have several programs I can run with.
I have yet to see a faster car out there running such low boost with the added safety of Bosch knock sensors.
This is a similar setup the factory 993GT2 EVO used in racing and the reason not more people run it is because they cannot program it easily. There are a few out there that can help of course in case something hapens to the tuner.
This featured car must have smaller Super 60 turbos maybe and with the higher compression, you will get monster torque down low I guess, but until you have experienced one of these Motronic pressure sensing cars you really won't know how great they are. Edpurplett has a very similar (Motronic, high compression, smaller turbos, GT2 cams...) configuration only with MAF instead of pressure sensing on one of his TTs.
Last edited by Jean; 05-08-2006 at 06:33 AM.
05-09-2006, 04:55 AM
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Hi Nathan 
I am not very technical but simplistically put, you remove the MAF and replace it with a MAP sensor that reads manifold pressure rather than air density, and calibrates accordingly, same as the aftermarket EFI systems. I have two K&N filters attached straight to the turbos, which secure a shorter air flow path and less restriction as well (air does not go through the MAF that does not exist anymore). All of this is similar to the EFI setup only with Motronic.
The key to these engines giving HP and torque is air. You can add fuel as much as you want, but their brake specific air consumption is a bit low (8.5ish) and is their major weakness to more HP. Whatever you can do to improve the breathing, the more torque you can get which is what the pressure sensing route does as well, then make sure you can calibrate it properly. Of course you can always add boost, but more torque at low boost is what all this is about "efficiency" basically, this ensures sustained high performance since you are generating less heat through lower boost levels. 705BHP at 1.14 Bar is a lot of HP, and this is on an engine dyno , no chassis dyno numbers. At 1.5 Bar the power levels for a few seconds can be scary, provided you have good intercooling.
I thought you might be interested in reading this write up, it gives an overall idea of the different setups and their upsides/downsides
Pressure sensing vs. MAF
Also, here are some words about why Pressure sensing..
"Although the 993's have a very low restriction mass flow sensor, they can also benefit from pressure sensing. Dyno tuning has shown up to 30hp gains, normally aspirated, by removing the mass flow sensor, air box and going with a low restriction air filter. Turbocharging is where the major gains can be had. The factory mass flow sensor runs out of range at 470-490hp, and that's just where the 993 engine starts to breath. Pressure sensing allows any power level to be obtained within the 0-250kpa range of the sensor, ie up to 1.5bar boost, all with unsurpassed drivability and power at all levels. "
Cheers
Jean
I am not very technical but simplistically put, you remove the MAF and replace it with a MAP sensor that reads manifold pressure rather than air density, and calibrates accordingly, same as the aftermarket EFI systems. I have two K&N filters attached straight to the turbos, which secure a shorter air flow path and less restriction as well (air does not go through the MAF that does not exist anymore). All of this is similar to the EFI setup only with Motronic.
The key to these engines giving HP and torque is air. You can add fuel as much as you want, but their brake specific air consumption is a bit low (8.5ish) and is their major weakness to more HP. Whatever you can do to improve the breathing, the more torque you can get which is what the pressure sensing route does as well, then make sure you can calibrate it properly. Of course you can always add boost, but more torque at low boost is what all this is about "efficiency" basically, this ensures sustained high performance since you are generating less heat through lower boost levels. 705BHP at 1.14 Bar is a lot of HP, and this is on an engine dyno , no chassis dyno numbers. At 1.5 Bar the power levels for a few seconds can be scary, provided you have good intercooling.
I thought you might be interested in reading this write up, it gives an overall idea of the different setups and their upsides/downsides
Pressure sensing vs. MAF
Also, here are some words about why Pressure sensing..
"Although the 993's have a very low restriction mass flow sensor, they can also benefit from pressure sensing. Dyno tuning has shown up to 30hp gains, normally aspirated, by removing the mass flow sensor, air box and going with a low restriction air filter. Turbocharging is where the major gains can be had. The factory mass flow sensor runs out of range at 470-490hp, and that's just where the 993 engine starts to breath. Pressure sensing allows any power level to be obtained within the 0-250kpa range of the sensor, ie up to 1.5bar boost, all with unsurpassed drivability and power at all levels. "
Cheers
Jean
