Les Quam

Toby,
I have observed the car being offered for sale three times in the past year which is unusual since it has been my experience that the very few low mile 79 930s that still exist change hands privately. It is now on ebay for sale from your Pontiac dealership which is not the first place one would think to look for a low mile vintage or classic Porsche. Ebay is not known for it's marketplace of rare low mile Porsche's nor is a Pontaic dealership where one would think to look for a 1984 Ferrari. You seem to have an elite cliental and an interest in rare Porsche's.

As a collector I would like to hear more about your dealership and how you are able to integrate Ferrari and Porsche customers into Pontiac's and Buicks. And we would all like to hear more about your rare 79 930. No disrespect was intended to you or your car.

JBH

Ummmm....I reread this thread and did not find a single word of BS. You are dealing with an experienced crowd that has seen the best and worst of the resale market. You might call us cautious, especially when looking at eBay sales and sellers that do not appear to have a background in the cars. There was no offense meant and I think you will find us very supportive when the car actually matches the claims.

Now as far as a 90 point car, well that is interesting. Would you mind posting pictures of the underside, wheel wells, and front bonnet?

tobyport

Please consider my over 600 positive feedback and a 99.8% rating on Ebay when you question my integrity and the quality of what I sell.

Yes, I guess for you loyal enthusiast, it is hard to believe that a General Motors dealer could sell quality pre-owned Ferraris and Porsches...however, I am fortunate to live in an affluent community known as Pinehurst and that affords me the opportunity to sell some high-end vehicles in my market where the closest high-line franchised dealer is 50+ miles away.

If it makes you feel better to put down my car to give you the thrill of thinking you've got the nicest Porsche in existence...well, that's ok with me.

If you are truly interested in purchasing my car, I will gladly arrange for a pre-purchase inspection at the location of your choice within a reasonable distance of my dealership. I personally use European Performance in Raleigh, NC for all my Porsche service.

If you are requesting additional photos, please request through the proper channel of Ebay Motors since that is where the car is listed for sale.

I agree, it is hard to find quality cars on Ebay motors because there is quite a bit of questionable merchandise listed. However, I have been fortunate to meet a lot of quality individuals through Ebay. I have been a registered user of Ebay since September 1998.

Thank you all again for your interest in my car.

38D

I don't think anyone is putting your car down, they are just saying it seemed odd to have such an unusual car for sale thru a pontiac dealer.

Les Quam

Nobody questioned his integrity or the quality of what he sells. Nobody put down his car either. A few general observations were made and a few questions were asked.

He stated the car was sold three times since January which was the basis for my original question and this thread. As enthusiasts and prospective buyers we asked for more pictures and some history on where the car was judged as a 90 point car and by whom. Some information or documentation that supports the mileage on the odommeter would have been helpful as well.

Some of us are enthusiasts, some are also collectors. We are all to some degree prospective buyers. As such we were hoping to learn more about this car and his dealership.

Last time I checked ebay the car had been bid up to 36K which is below his reserve.

cobalt

Les,

I think we all agree with you on this one. I become very leery myself when a seller expects you to take his word on something and offers little to no fact but strong opinion.

The funny thing is he became very defensive and the only derogating I see happening here is on his part with comments like "If it makes you feel better to put down my car to give you the thrill of thinking you've got the nicest Porsche in existence...well, that's ok with me."

This comment was totally unfounded and anyone I have dealt with that makes comments like this and expects you to not question his car usually is someone I don't care to do business with. But thats just my .02 worth.

Les Quam

Cobalt,

The funny thing is it might be a real car with original paint and mileage. And I have been looking for a low mile original 79 turbo for a long time and called on this car last winter but it had been sold a day before I called. But Toby's response's I found to be a bit unusual for someone who deals with prospective buyers on a daily basis.

Instead of the insults he might have told us about the car and whether it has a clear documented owner history with some paperwork showing the mileage over the years and some background on the car. If I understood him correctly and from his ebay ad the car was sold to a dealer in NY last January 2004. He bought it from the dealer and sold it to a client who sold it back to Toby a month later in trade on a Ferrari. That leaves me wondering a couple of things.

One, was the car sold by the original owner to the NY dealer?
Two, who has owned the car since last winter when Toby bought it back from his client who traded it back in on a Ferrari?

But in my opinion Toby views us on this forum as he put it "want to be's" and wasting his time to share more information with us.

Bsides I think everyone will generally agree that Cobalt has the nicest Porsche in existence. LOL LOL

cobalt

Les,

I appreciate the comment I needed a good laugh and that one sent me over the top.

I was going too make a comment, but figured it would fall on daft ears in this case. I don't think he realizes that you of all people couldn't be any more serious about this or any car you inquire about. I appreciate the fact that he has his little niche secluded some 50 miles away from his competitors. I guess you need to live in "Pinehurst" or blindly accept his word in order to qualify to do business at this GM dealership.

To bad, this may have been the car to add to your collection. I wouldn't worry the right one will come along.

Les Quam

Cobalt,
One of the reasons I didn't call his Pontiac dealership on the car when I saw it on ebay was because I was afraid I would get the exactly the same kind of nonsense he provided for us on this thread.

Curt911

Sorry Toby, even with the best eBay feedback, a car still has to stand on his own merit. I think the guys here are asking for the story on the car, not your story.

I don't think anyone finds that hard to believe, they were just asking for information of how the car ended up there.

Don't get your feeling hurt, they are not putting down your car or attacking you, again, their quest is for info, instead of makeing comments like this just give them some more facts or history of the car!

This is Good! You use European Performance, have they been servicing this car?

Why not go ahead and post it here, there may be others that are watching this thread but not posting and adding more details may get them to bid. The crowd on here are much more qualified than the average eBayer that may visit your auction.

Be careful making a statement like this. Unless it has been awarded 90 in some show or forum, it would be better to say "I would rate this car a 9 out of 10, and it would not take much to get it to a 10", otherwise we're gonna want the details on where it pulled the 90 points.

Take another look at this thread, there is not a single "wanna-be" that has posted here, in fact, since your selling to the world-wide market ( I assume there was not anthing happening at this point locally), why would you post any negatives towards a group of some of the best potential customers you may have for the car? Why not take the time to put together a post with pics and all the details you can? Its its true what your saying about the car this info can only help get the bids up!

JBH

Whew - didn't expect that response from Toby.

Reviewing the eBay history of this individual, it can hardly be said that it establishes a reputation of selling high value, collector quality vehicles. Sorry Toby, but I am unconvinced of your experitise or knowledge of high performance vehicles.

You are indeed a dealership in Southern Pines, but at your website, all cars for sale are domestic, except this one. You might want to reconsider who you call a wanna-be.

tobyport

Gentlemen - I apologize for too quickly taking offense over some of the comments in this thread - I guess I shouldn't be surprised that one might have reason to pause when presented with a Pontiac dealer selling a 930. I enjoy my job and it affords me the opportunity to own and sell some great cars other than Pontiacs (I'll make any of you a deal on a new GTO). As far as this 930 is concerned, it is a very special Porsche. My client sent it to Sports Leicht Restorations http://www.sportsleicht.com
here in Pinehurst to be evaluated - these guys are pros when it comes to concours and they said the car was at least a 90 point car "as is". Bjorn runs SLR and you are welcome to contact him. This car hasn't needed any service since I bought it in January but European Performance in Raleigh would be glad to do a PPI. If you have an interest in this 930, please call me at 1-800-399-8629. I will be glad to fax you all of the records and provide more detailed pictures. Also, feel free to call Mr. Tom Papadopoulos at Autosport Design in Huntington Station, NY, 631.425.1555...he knows the car intimately! If you are serious about this car, I am sure that you will find it worthwhile to make some calls...provide me with a fax number and the records will be sent to you in short order.

By the way, Porsche Certificate of Authenticity list the exterior paint as Light Blue Metallic #J4J4.

Thank you, Toby

Les Quam

Toby,

Thanks for the reply and we honestly meant no harm. I apologize in advance for this next statement because I am sure their is a mistake but I ran the VIN number through the Porsche computer and it came up as originally sold at Veale Porsche as you stated but the Porsche computer lists the original color as special order rain forest green? The original owner owned it until 1988 according to the computer the next listed owner still owns it according to Porsche Computer?? I ran the VIN a couple of times to be certain. have you ever run the VIN?

I was going to call the Restoration shop which by the way looks like an incredible resto shop but I figured I would ask you about the Porsche computer first. Thanks for your patience.

blackboy

How many people here would expect to find let alone buy a supposedly excellent condition Porsche at or from a GM dealer? Not too many I would think.
This does not mean the situation is implausible, just that it is highly unlikely. Oh and by- the- way, very few affluent people here on Long Island buy Pontiacs or Buicks. Corvettes and Caddy's are as domestic as most get.

Trader220

Guys, I know quite a few hum drum domestic dealers that do a very nice business selling highline imports. Our new friend Toby may indeed have built a nice approval rating on Ebay by shipping Pontiacs and other domestics around the country. Although I am not in the car business I know quite a few dealers of many different makes. I frequently attend the dealer’s only auctions in Manheim PA as a guest of my dealer friends. I have in the past reported on interesting cars that have been auctioned there on this very board.

As far as this board goes it’s been my experience that there is a collection of VERY knowledgeable Porsche owners and enthusiasts here. In particular, the devotion to the 930 or 911 turbo, as the year may dictate, is cult like. This board has some of the finer examples from around the world represented here. You’ll notice that on something like the 996 board, although there is a huge following they don’t all appear to have the technical expertise and total devotion that most people on this board have. No offense of course to the fine 996 loving crew.

Personally I take offense to the “wannabee” slander and I suggest that if Toby would like to view my collection of not only Porsche’s but other vehicles as well, he may stop by my garage in the Main Line suburb area of Philadelphia anytime he likes. I also suggest that all the regulars extend the same kind offer. Every forum has its share of bad seeds and I am sure Toby is a good guy. It would seem to me that this board is an excellent place to show and discuss these cars directly to a target audience and those who run in circles of people that would have interest in this car.

I recall seeing this car at Autosport Design, and knowing that shop and their excellent reputation I imagine they sold this car for a pretty penny. They have access to an extremely large affluent market and they have a HUGE number of repeat clients. This car may be a tougher sale in NC. I am sure everyone here is now chomping at the bit to pass information about this car and your fine dealership along to their Porsche enthusiast friends.