SoFast

I was not on here to just put down some muscle to the pavement. I wanted a car i could play with. Something that I could track, like you, and then still drive it for some fun. As for tickets..I hope that I can keep it under control..Trust me, I have a hemi car that just screams power. I returned it to the original state, but when I bought it, the engine was heavily modified with heads, intake, cam, valvetrain, you name it. The car would launch and put a streak in your underpants. What was it good for, drag racing. Barely useable on the street. that is why I want to be within the 500 -600 hp range. I heard it is streetable and compliments it well on the track. So when I get shoved down on this, I understand your view points. Yes, if I wanted a newer version, I would have bought that type of car. I just happen to like 930's for now. Maybe my taste will change in the furture. For now, all I am asking is for some advice on completing the project in a manner that is functional, street worthy, and reliable. Reason I came on here to chat with gurus like you all. I do appreciate the comments and keep them comming.

Paul

SoFast

I also picked the 930 as a starting point to learn the ropes on tinkering. You do not start at the top. But that is just me. I didnt want to buy someones finished product. I wanted to play.

jhunt@huntinter

The 930 is a great platform to play with. You can make simple to complex mods and see real results each time. A real plus is that there are no computers to get in the way either.

Much better then trying to mod a late model turbo (see Stephens thread on rebuilding the engine).

With considered mods (or trial and error) you will end up with a car that in very real terms will smoke most everything on the street, even newer models. Our cars are light and can easily produce lots of power. You can go fast.

My own experience in using the car as a daily driver and no longer going to the track (and never street racing) is that 450hp was too much. No biggie in the dry, but it rains up here (Seattle) all the time. So I simply reverted the wastegate from 1 to .7.

PorschePhD

I only bought the 996 because the AC worked!! LOL, just kidding. Great reading here guys. It is all about what YOU want to pay about what can be done. You have no idea what people WILL do. We just 30K worth of mods to a Boxster. The response is always the same, I want that done because I can't have it built and no one can go buy it. I love the 930s, and they are able to make huge HP, just not without serious mods. Trust me. I have sent a few half shafts out the rear end towards the cars behind me. It is a string of mods that have to be done to make durable. To make the 550-600 mark is easy. making more hold and usable is a real task.


Hey!! I like my muffler and Nav

blitz951

I look at the 930 like a muscle car. It has the potential to beat anything on the road in a straight line and while you can make it fast on a track it seems the level of engineering required for fastest lap times is so much more than straight line acceleration. You can make anything fast in a straight line but with handling balance, suspension geometry... is dependent on the platform your starting with and I dont see how a car 20 years older can compete with newer cars like the 996 when going to the limit with equal drivers on a track. That said a 930 properly set up and with big power would be more than enough for most unless you are into the big time race scene when every second counts.

pole position

On another post you claimed a modded 951 will walk a Gt 2 and now a " big power" 930 would beat anything in a straight line ?
Hint : go to a dragstrip and see what good old american muscle can do.
I had a " properly set up" 930 and everything over 450 rwhp is getting REAL expensive and if you add everything up you can get a used 996tt and modify that car for the same amount AND start with 450rwhp with a simple Ecu/exhaust change AND have spare change.
Btw , the philosophy behind Porsche is handling combined with power................

jhunt@huntinter

I don't think a 930 is like a typical american muscle car. While Camaros can go fast, they don't much like turning. A 930 can turn and handle any road corse just fine. My point is the pursuit of hp beyond 450 or so is being done for reasons other then track or street performance. It won't lower lap times all that much and certainly won't shorten your commute. And if lap times are your ultimate goal then you are better off with the newer platform anyhow. If this wasn't the case they would still be racing 934 and 935's at LeMans.

blitz951

Pole position,
The claim I made was a 996TT can be beat buy a modded 951 if the 996 is stock. I also said that if the GT2 made 450 RWHP, as you stated and I will take your word, then the modded 951 would not stand a chance. Lets make it clear that a turbo 911 when modified will beat a 951 when it is modified.
We all know the handling combined with power philosophy but my point was that every year porsche comes out with a new car the platform is more advance and it would be very hard to compete with such an advanced car on a track. As far as acceleration you can make most cars fast take for example a Supra turbo, air cooled bugs, Honda's, 30 year old American cars, etc... but making fast lap times is much more difficult and thats why you dont hear of older cars breaking track records but many of these older cars can run well under 10 sec. quartermiles.
Your right about american muscle and I will say that my statement about the modded 930 beating anything was a little enthusiastic but I think you know what I mean. Anyway, I hope your clear now and I have to go back to work.

SoFast

Making 450hp is not for anything else but for the track! Lets look at this based on principle and theory....Staright line and curves......Dependent on the track or road course, what does this consist of? Straight lines and corners. Now, think about this!!! What portion of the course does HP mean the most? Straight line. In a straight line, hp counts.....Hands down...Give me a scenario when it doesnt.....So, if you have more HP, you will lower your time in theory. The only advantage the newer cars will have is the cornering ability. So, by saying that going above 450 hp for track use is a waste...That should not be the case..Again, dependent on the course or track. As well, you can also work on the 930 to make it handle better than original. As for the 996...By the time you make the mods to the used 930, or buy a GT2, then add mods....Which is less expensive? As well, which would you care less about in a crash, especially if you are out there to have fun. I think it is superb to be able to work on your car and race it as well. That is why the 930 is such a great car for the enthusiats and not professional racer. My opinoin and reason for the direction I am headed down.

Geoffrey

SoFast, in theory, that is correct, however there is another dimension which talks about how much of the time you are able to be full throttle at a given track. Here is some logging from my MoTeC at Watkins Glen (3.45mi 'HP track') from the session that matches the video clip on my website. Granted, this is still a street car configured for the track and I'm not the best driver out there, however you can get the idea. You'll notice how little time is spent at full throttle with the car configured to run .7bar or about 550hp. When I tried higher boost pressures, the amount of time spent at full throttle, and higher boost levels was less. So unless weight, suspension, and chassis modifications were made, higher boost levels (more hp) won't lower my lap times. This is another reason building an engine that has good "area under the curve" provides for a more powerful engine and increases the overall performance potential.

SoFast

Geoff,

I never stated that I wanted an engine over what you have. I believe your car is around 550 hp? Do you think that is ideal or not now? As well, like I said, dependant on the track or road course. So, a good blend is needed and over HP is a nusiance. But I dont believe the hp range I want to shoot for is out of useablilty. Why is that so in this discussion?

SoFast

BTW, great graphs. Do they download directly to your laptop? Very nice indeed.

Geoffrey

Why not? I always want more HP, in fact, I built the engine for 700hp, but later found out that it didn't do me much good except for a cool dyno graph. One of the by products though is that I now have an engine that operates at stock boost pressure rather than 1.0 or 1.2 so it will last longer. I tune a lot of 700hp street cars and it is pretty cool, nothing wrong with it. My only point is that at some point, more does not = better unless other changes are made. If I were not selling the car, I would probably do one more iteration of this engine using a 76.4mm crank, 8.0:1 compression pistons (instead of the 7.22:1 I have now) but use the rest of what I have. Completely unnecessary, but an interesting project nonetheless.

The graphs are from data that is downloaded from the MoTeC ECU in my car. Laptop software is available to anlayze a variety of engine functions.

SoFast

So, based upon all of the stuff stated on here...Yes, no and maybe on hp.....What do you need to do to the suspension in order to have the car capable of handling 700 hp. I want to shoot high...Not that this is the goal, but I would like to over build.....
As well, what other mods are required. I want to know the whole enchilada. This has been informative and exciting. Plus, I am sure it has helped others in the quest for the ultimate project car.

Paul

Geoffrey

It depends on what you want to do with the car. If just having 700hp to blast down the street in a straight line, then fine, put some big bars in the back to keep the car from squatting/bottoming out. If you are interested in tracking, then you need to address the stock suspension geomerty to get 2.5-3 degrees of negative camber so the car turns in properly. You'll also want to remove some weight.