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M491, M470 911 Carrera 1985-1989 Values

Old 08-18-2017, 08:40 AM
  #46  
Adams
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Originally Posted by TJsBeer View Post
I just picked up this '87 M491
Venetian Blue over Champagne
Just gorgeous. I had the same color combo on a 930 years ago and it remains my favorite.

Tell us more! Miles, options, condition other than the obvious, anything on your acquisition story. Resealed motor looks seriously nice too.
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Old 08-18-2017, 07:29 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Adams View Post
Just gorgeous. I had the same color combo on a 930 years ago and it remains my favorite.

Tell us more! Miles, options, condition other than the obvious, anything on your acquisition story. Resealed motor looks seriously nice too.
98k miles.
Working power top
Raised hub steering wheel (Which is awesome for me being 6'3")
Central locking.
Original Window sticker
COA
All the receipts from first owner.
Nice condition overall for the mileage.
1st owner had it in Texas until 2005 and 75k miles
2nd owner was a retired military serviceman had it in North Carolina.
A VERY good quality respray.
My buddy found the ad for it and sent me a message "this will look good on you"
It's really more mileage than I like.
But the color combo drew me in.
I called the guy (it was a consignor), asked a few questions, checked with the T-L registry to verify it as a real M491 (it is), ordered a PPI (which was horribly wrong) and negotiated it down $7500 off his ask. I've spent $9300 getting it up to my standards. (I'm exceptionally picky)
Only thing left to do is the carpets. They're in decent enough shape. But Champagne can look dingy after a while. So I ordered a full set of OEM Champagne carpets from Lakewell, but he's way behind.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:41 PM
  #48  
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Reviving an old thread! Beautiful cars guys! If you hear of an M-491 becoming available please shoot me a PM. Thanks!
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:45 PM
  #49  
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I'd sell my '84 coupe with a 3.6, but you'd have to pay waaay over market...and do it before I drag it to California!
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:07 PM
  #50  
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I don’t get the fascination with these cars. It’s basically a fake turbo.
Sure the turbo is a beautiful car , and this is meh because it doesn’t have the power to match the looks
What am I missing ? Do I need to drink more koolaid ?
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:24 PM
  #51  
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It's a pretty straightforward equation: very little time you spend in a car is above 4,000rpm at wide-open throttle, and that's the only place the 930 shines. Meanwhile, the widebody air-cooled 911s are gorgeous, and that's of paramount importance in any classic car. These M4xx cars are phenomenal, and depending on how/where you drive, they're literally as good as it get for daily-drivable classic cars.

PS - In 2017 the Porsche 930 is a performance joke, just like every air-cooled Porsche from the factory, so get over it, 'cause that hasn't been what it's about for over a decade.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:53 PM
  #52  
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No need to be defensive I was just trying to understand the fascination. There is no denying the 930 is an iconic car with its place it history. Talking it down doesn’t help your case.
Anyway moving on. ....
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:39 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by theiceman
I don’t get the fascination with these cars. It’s basically a fake turbo.
Sure the turbo is a beautiful car , and this is meh because it doesn’t have the power to match the looks
What am I missing ? Do I need to drink more koolaid ?
I’m with you. The 3.2 Carrera gives you all performance/drive for way less money apples/apples than the Turbo Look. If your paying M491 money I would buy a sorted driver 930 over a garage queen “Turbo Look” any day. Might as well buy the real deal if your spending $70-$80k IMO.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:40 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by theiceman View Post
I don t get the fascination with these cars. It s basically a fake turbo.
Sure the turbo is a beautiful car , and this is meh because it doesn t have the power to match the looks
What am I missing ? Do I need to drink more koolaid ?

I wouldn't exactly call it a fake Turbo as the M491 is a factory 930 tub without the Turbo engine.. so there is some value in that. Of course if the urge calls you can build-up a Turbo motor and pluck it in, or discreetly modify the 3.2 into a screamer. On the other hand, the value thing is whole different matter and this is where the debate rages.. I will say that the M491 was produced in fewer numbers overall so that may add some cache.

Originally Posted by Tremelune View Post
It's a pretty straightforward equation: very little time you spend in a car is above 4,000rpm at wide-open throttle, and that's the only place the 930 shines. Meanwhile, the widebody air-cooled 911s are gorgeous, and that's of paramount importance in any classic car. These M4xx cars are phenomenal, and depending on how/where you drive, they're literally as good as it get for daily-drivable classic cars.

PS - In 2017 the Porsche 930 is a performance joke, just like every air-cooled Porsche from the factory, so get over it, 'cause that hasn't been what it's about for over a decade.
And that's why we modify our 930's, ever so slight mods awaken these cars and make them very usable throughout the rpm range, as usable as the M491 as a "daily-drivable classic cars" if you want to go there. My personal car starts to make boost around 18 -1900 rpm, the cams make it very usable at lower rpm and eliminate both the slow take-off from dead stop and the dead zone between 2500 & 4k. And for the record, the old girl will still hold its own with pretty much anything on the street these days. I mean hey, when 2nd gear will allow you to run-up over 90 mph..

However I think in the end be it M941 or Turbo... everybody likes a fat-bottom girl!
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:21 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by onboost View Post

However I think in the end be it M941 or Turbo... everybody likes a fat-bottom girl!
yeah I admit im a bit of a J-lo fan .
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:37 AM
  #56  
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Indeed, I got unnecessarily defensive there. As the owner of an M491 the "fake turbo" comments get old real quick. To me, it's more like a better-looking 911 than a slow 930. Most enthusiasts would like more power in whatever they're driving, but it's a waaay less important factor in a 30-year-old classic. I guess it depends a lot on where and how you drive. When I had my '87 911, the "lack" of power never got in the way of the enjoyment.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:01 PM
  #57  
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Maybe fake turbo was the wrong choice of words and I apologize if I offended you. ( damn and I thought I was first to use it ) . I think what I took out of the whole thing is that they were made in far less numbers than the 930, so this gives it somewhat of a panache outside of the other stuff.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:35 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by theiceman View Post
I don t get the fascination with these cars. It s basically a fake turbo.
Sure the turbo is a beautiful car , and this is meh because it doesn t have the power to match the looks
What am I missing ? Do I need to drink more koolaid ?
Actually I somewhat agree with the 'fake turbo comment", which is why I really like my M491/M470. I get the widebody styling and suspension package without having anyone asking me if its a real turbo.

Originally Posted by theiceman View Post
I think what I took out of the whole thing is that they were made in far less numbers than the 930, so this gives it somewhat of a panache outside of the other stuff.
Maybe Porsche understood this when they made the Speedster in 89.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:46 PM
  #59  
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Everyone has an opinion and that is why there is turbo, non turbo cars.
I am looking for hard top, sunroof, car. Not black, unless basket.
Nice find on the blue, that is beautiful. Convertible right?
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:09 AM
  #60  
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I think the term "fake" anything sends chills up the spine of the person who owns or appreciates it. To me, the nomenclature of "Turbo Look" (ie, fake, replica) goofed up the perception of the cars. In Europe, they're called "Super Sports" which is far more accurate, but gave Chevrolet's trademark attorneys heartburn.

Like Tremelune says, these are really just very nicely factory upgraded 911 Carreras. They look better (subjective of course), handle better, brake better, and are rare as heck. The later Speedster and Americas are no different really, and their values are nicely supported by a rabid fan base without the "fake" descriptors.

Having owned 4 turbo cars, I don't miss the heat nor the complexity. The slingshot effect power curve got old to me too (one man's opinion, which Onboost may've resolved) This, with the paranoia-induced cooldown, increased maintenance, and ever-waning power advantage began to offset the attributes. Plus, I like being able to see my engine. I actually sought the M491, likely for the same reasons as Lodi (and many others; I get a few PMs a year about mine, "...just checking")

On a side note, I pulled my teatray in favor of a ducktail, partly due to the 'fake' - did I just say that? - pretense of an intercooler. To me, it looks better hanging on the wall, plus I picked up about a 30 pound advantage. Long live Porsche's Super Sport!.
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