exceeding speed rating on winter tires
01-15-2003, 04:14 PM
#1
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exceeding speed rating on winter tires
Have a 89 C4 with Blizzak "Q" speed rated tires, which is 99 mph. Can this speed be exceeded in short bursts, say up to 130 mph or so?
Drew
89 C4
86 930 (sleeping for the winter)
Drew
89 C4
86 930 (sleeping for the winter)
01-15-2003, 11:34 PM
#2
Rennlist Lifetime Member
<img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> Are you insane????? <img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" /> I think maybe. 
01-16-2003, 10:54 AM
#5
Rennlist Lifetime Member
Well if you hadn't sold the wheels I gave you with it you would have had tires rated for snow and speed. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />
01-16-2003, 11:19 AM
#6
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Well the rating is for sustained speeds, but exceeding the rating by 30 mph would make me rather uncomfortable. Also remember that you have a lot less traction with winter tires than you're used to from summer rubber. Don't you have any "Ice DEs" in Michigan that would keep you amused?
Stef
Stef
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01-18-2003, 12:02 AM
#9
The sustained speed rating has a lot to do with heat buildup. Other than the small details of "that whole tread thing" and the "hold the air in thing" the main purpose for the rubber is to act as a glue to hold the tire's components together. Rubber kind of sucks as a high performance glue and its strength decreases very quickly as its temperature increases. If the tires are steel belted you add to this is the fact that rubber really doesn't stick well to metal.
The up shoot of all this is that the tire is apt to be able to deal with a higher level of load at a lower temperature. Also the speed rating only shows how high of a speed the design was tested to. It a good quality winter tire should be good for more.
Question> Are you driving on snow and ice or are you driving on basically clear asphalt that happens to be very cold? They require very different tires for maximum traction.
A high performance street tire with smaller tread blocks and a higher percentage of groove area makes a great winter tire. A narrower tire, especially on the front, helps too. Some sort of a posi is really more important than getting a snow tire. Studs are really of no use except on hard ice particularly if the ice is wet. Studs are mostly for when the tires are spinning on ice. The ire makes it's most traction right before it spins so if you learn to stop spinning the tires you will get more traction and then the studs have no value.
Getting back to the original question. I personally wouldn't worry about a 140mph blast on a H rated snow tire but I would also expect someone doing that on snow to have a high level of car control in marginal conditions. If you really can push it on snow than I would expect you not to freak if the car isn't always pointed straight ahead and then losing a tire shouldn't be a huge deal. (just ignore the Wangity, Wangity, **** as the tire tread reshapes the inside of your wheel well!
)
Wayne
The up shoot of all this is that the tire is apt to be able to deal with a higher level of load at a lower temperature. Also the speed rating only shows how high of a speed the design was tested to. It a good quality winter tire should be good for more.
Question> Are you driving on snow and ice or are you driving on basically clear asphalt that happens to be very cold? They require very different tires for maximum traction.
A high performance street tire with smaller tread blocks and a higher percentage of groove area makes a great winter tire. A narrower tire, especially on the front, helps too. Some sort of a posi is really more important than getting a snow tire. Studs are really of no use except on hard ice particularly if the ice is wet. Studs are mostly for when the tires are spinning on ice. The ire makes it's most traction right before it spins so if you learn to stop spinning the tires you will get more traction and then the studs have no value.
Getting back to the original question. I personally wouldn't worry about a 140mph blast on a H rated snow tire but I would also expect someone doing that on snow to have a high level of car control in marginal conditions. If you really can push it on snow than I would expect you not to freak if the car isn't always pointed straight ahead and then losing a tire shouldn't be a huge deal. (just ignore the Wangity, Wangity, **** as the tire tread reshapes the inside of your wheel well!
)Wayne
01-18-2003, 12:48 AM
#10
I would respectfully disagree with Wayne in his statement that high performance street tires make great winter tires. The compounds used in high performance street tires get like hard plastic in temps below 40 degree F. Cold, stiff rubber on cold pavement makes for poor traction. Dedicated snow tires are very pliable in cold temperatures.
If you use a dedicated snow in warm weather, they wear very quickly because they turn very gummy in temps above 50 degrees F. Even if there is no snow present, it's nice to use snow tires due to their added cold weather grip over a summer tire. Leave the performance tires for spring, summer and winter.
Traction control systems will only do so much on a car. Dedicated snow tires can turn even a nightmare like rear drive, high torque Z28 into a snowmobile (even without traction control aids) in poor winter weather.
Jay
90 964
If you use a dedicated snow in warm weather, they wear very quickly because they turn very gummy in temps above 50 degrees F. Even if there is no snow present, it's nice to use snow tires due to their added cold weather grip over a summer tire. Leave the performance tires for spring, summer and winter.
Traction control systems will only do so much on a car. Dedicated snow tires can turn even a nightmare like rear drive, high torque Z28 into a snowmobile (even without traction control aids) in poor winter weather.
Jay
90 964
01-18-2003, 12:15 PM
#11
Looking a Jay H's statement, I agree with almost all of his points but I disagree with the conclusion.
Snow tires will generate more grip on dry ice cold asphalt. They will wear faster at higher temperatures. The big "But" here is that no one is going to be pushing 10/10ths on dry frozen asphalt because when you hit that little patch of ice in a shady spot you are going off in a big way. This makes the advantages of a snow tire not particularly useful. Also, the higher the speed is the less the advantage is. (I never have been able to figure out why. Anybody have any ideas?)
If you are driving on snow (not ice, but something that moves around) the most important factor is having grooves so the loose snow can clear from around the tread. The hot trick we used to use was lower profile performance street tires that were retreaded with a truck pattern.
On ice, especially wet ice, it all goes out the window. The only important thing here is how good the driver is at catching the first bit of wheel spin and avoiding it.
As for traction control. It seems to do huge things on asphalt. On snow I have never tried it but I think it would take all the fun out of it and I think it would cause problems with emergency maneuvers such as putting the passenger side tires into the heavy roadside fluff to get the car to stop faster. On ice traction control is really useless. The brain works so much better anyway.
The end all of all of this. Yes if I had snow tires I would use them. With the current summer tires I use it would be necessary. If I already owned a set of summer tires with reasonable siping I would not lay out the money for snows. I would never use studs on the street. If I was doing one or two 130mph run I would use whatever is on the car. If I was going to do a lot of 130+ blasts I would use a summer tire. If I had lots of money to throw at it I would like to try Yokahama's rally tires.
Also a side note: Never saw the nightmare of high horse power in a rear drive car (saw some giggles). It is hysterically fun and I learned more by flinging a car around in the winter then by all the various DEs and racing since. I really wish that they could require that type of spin control for a drivers license. Then people could learn to keep driving even if the car isn't exactly pointed forward.
Wayne
Snow tires will generate more grip on dry ice cold asphalt. They will wear faster at higher temperatures. The big "But" here is that no one is going to be pushing 10/10ths on dry frozen asphalt because when you hit that little patch of ice in a shady spot you are going off in a big way. This makes the advantages of a snow tire not particularly useful. Also, the higher the speed is the less the advantage is. (I never have been able to figure out why. Anybody have any ideas?)
If you are driving on snow (not ice, but something that moves around) the most important factor is having grooves so the loose snow can clear from around the tread. The hot trick we used to use was lower profile performance street tires that were retreaded with a truck pattern.
On ice, especially wet ice, it all goes out the window. The only important thing here is how good the driver is at catching the first bit of wheel spin and avoiding it.
As for traction control. It seems to do huge things on asphalt. On snow I have never tried it but I think it would take all the fun out of it and I think it would cause problems with emergency maneuvers such as putting the passenger side tires into the heavy roadside fluff to get the car to stop faster. On ice traction control is really useless. The brain works so much better anyway.
The end all of all of this. Yes if I had snow tires I would use them. With the current summer tires I use it would be necessary. If I already owned a set of summer tires with reasonable siping I would not lay out the money for snows. I would never use studs on the street. If I was doing one or two 130mph run I would use whatever is on the car. If I was going to do a lot of 130+ blasts I would use a summer tire. If I had lots of money to throw at it I would like to try Yokahama's rally tires.
Also a side note: Never saw the nightmare of high horse power in a rear drive car (saw some giggles). It is hysterically fun and I learned more by flinging a car around in the winter then by all the various DEs and racing since. I really wish that they could require that type of spin control for a drivers license. Then people could learn to keep driving even if the car isn't exactly pointed forward.
Wayne
01-19-2003, 12:52 PM
#12
Thats a risk I wouldn't be willing to take...Of course its fun to get the juices flowing, but aot of bad things can happen at above 100 MPH and our cars are only as strong as the weakest link...Have fun & Happy motoring, but becareful...
