Parallel Flow Condenser filter.
08-19-2015, 03:15 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Parallel Flow Condenser filter.
When converting to R134a typically requires somehow increasing condensing capacity to help overcome the higher pressures that the R134a would otherwise cause.
Which is also the reason a binary pressure switch is an ABSOLUTE requirement for the older systems that included an HPRV. A High Pressure Relief Valve that would automatically vent refrigerant to atmosphere if/when high side pressures reached 500 PSI.
Our systems do not have an HPRV but it is possible that it was the Porsche engineers intention that the non-barrier hoses serve that same purpose.
It seems to that the very best solution of the moment is embodied in ZIMs driver side fender well condenser/fan kit.
But, why not a much more highly efficient parallel flow condenser in place of the relatively poor efficiency serpentine flow one that is provided.
The only shortcoming would be the increased probability of blockage due to debris pre-existing in the system. My home heat pump system has an inline filter presumably for just that reason.
Why not the same filter immediately downstream of the compressor?
Thoughts?
Which is also the reason a binary pressure switch is an ABSOLUTE requirement for the older systems that included an HPRV. A High Pressure Relief Valve that would automatically vent refrigerant to atmosphere if/when high side pressures reached 500 PSI.
Our systems do not have an HPRV but it is possible that it was the Porsche engineers intention that the non-barrier hoses serve that same purpose.
It seems to that the very best solution of the moment is embodied in ZIMs driver side fender well condenser/fan kit.
But, why not a much more highly efficient parallel flow condenser in place of the relatively poor efficiency serpentine flow one that is provided.
The only shortcoming would be the increased probability of blockage due to debris pre-existing in the system. My home heat pump system has an inline filter presumably for just that reason.
Why not the same filter immediately downstream of the compressor?
Thoughts?
08-20-2015, 10:25 AM
#2
The amount of condenser required is relative to the outside (ambient) air temperatures the car will be driving in.
Some older receiver driers had an "HPRV" high pressure relieve valve, however
most of those systems by now have a new drier and most of the new drier's deleted the high pressure relief valve.
The benefit of a 'binary' pressure switch, a single switch providing both low and high pressure cut off for the compressor as opposed to 2 separate switches, is to cut off the compressor should the system run low on refrigerant and to cut off the compressor should system pressures rise too high.
What 'serpentine' condenser and where is it located.
Blockage caused by "pre-existing" debris or waxed oil is avoided by doing a pre-inspection of the system prior to modifications or during AC maintenance.
Debris or contamination can be removed in many cases by performing a proper AC liquid flush procedure of components which will remain in the system, such as hoses, condensers and evaporator cores (with TEV removed). However, if you are replacing the 26+ year old leaky stock factory non-barrier hoses and updating to low permeable barrier hoses then flushing of the old hoses is eliminated from the procedure. And, in many cases the time and cost to flush the old stock hoses is not worth it.
I would assume you are suggesting putting in an in-line filter after confirming there is no debris or contamination. Fortunately, the 911 and 930 are not prone to debris and contamination as found more commonly with the air cooled 924s/928,944,951 and 968, its just the nature and statistics of the models.
Griffiths' proven Kuehl Fender Condenser systems, available in various configurations for the 911,912,930, provides additional condenser capacity, new barrier hoses, new drier, new o-rings, binary switch and much more. These systems have been in the field for nearly 20 years providing car owners with both improved cooling performance as well as high reliability.
Some older receiver driers had an "HPRV" high pressure relieve valve, however
most of those systems by now have a new drier and most of the new drier's deleted the high pressure relief valve.
The benefit of a 'binary' pressure switch, a single switch providing both low and high pressure cut off for the compressor as opposed to 2 separate switches, is to cut off the compressor should the system run low on refrigerant and to cut off the compressor should system pressures rise too high.
What 'serpentine' condenser and where is it located.
Blockage caused by "pre-existing" debris or waxed oil is avoided by doing a pre-inspection of the system prior to modifications or during AC maintenance.
Debris or contamination can be removed in many cases by performing a proper AC liquid flush procedure of components which will remain in the system, such as hoses, condensers and evaporator cores (with TEV removed). However, if you are replacing the 26+ year old leaky stock factory non-barrier hoses and updating to low permeable barrier hoses then flushing of the old hoses is eliminated from the procedure. And, in many cases the time and cost to flush the old stock hoses is not worth it.
I would assume you are suggesting putting in an in-line filter after confirming there is no debris or contamination. Fortunately, the 911 and 930 are not prone to debris and contamination as found more commonly with the air cooled 924s/928,944,951 and 968, its just the nature and statistics of the models.
Griffiths' proven Kuehl Fender Condenser systems, available in various configurations for the 911,912,930, provides additional condenser capacity, new barrier hoses, new drier, new o-rings, binary switch and much more. These systems have been in the field for nearly 20 years providing car owners with both improved cooling performance as well as high reliability.
08-20-2015, 01:11 PM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
There seem to be 2 instances wherein someone installed a PFC in the rear lid, in one case the ONLY condenser iin the system, and the result was more than adequate performance of their A/C converted to R134a.
That level of improvement got my attention.
But it seems that the size of (normal?) "debris" that passes through a regular condenser and is trapped by the R/D before reaching the TXV might block the much smaller passages of a PFC.
Thus the question.
I've been thinking for some time about adding a condenser/fan in the front of the driver's side wheelwell of my '88 Carrera.
My thought now is why not use a PFC with, seemingly, heat transfer capability dramatically higher than aftermarket systems currently available. Might the performance improvement be so great as to be able to remove the problematic engine lid condenser.
So, does anyone make a simple inline refrigerant filter that could be installed in the discharge line upstream of the condenser?
That level of improvement got my attention.
But it seems that the size of (normal?) "debris" that passes through a regular condenser and is trapped by the R/D before reaching the TXV might block the much smaller passages of a PFC.
Thus the question.
I've been thinking for some time about adding a condenser/fan in the front of the driver's side wheelwell of my '88 Carrera.
My thought now is why not use a PFC with, seemingly, heat transfer capability dramatically higher than aftermarket systems currently available. Might the performance improvement be so great as to be able to remove the problematic engine lid condenser.
So, does anyone make a simple inline refrigerant filter that could be installed in the discharge line upstream of the condenser?
08-20-2015, 01:26 PM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
PFC Turbo Texas
Compare this to an aftermarket system that seems to REQUIRE 4 condensers, engine lid, front & rear fender well condenser/fans, and the front lip condenser/fan in order to get adequate A/C performance in Texas HEAT.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-9...non-c-car.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-9...non-c-car.html
Last edited by wwest; 08-20-2015 at 01:49 PM.
08-20-2015, 02:26 PM
#5
Addict
West we can see right through what you are doing. Why push it? Why couch your attack in a question? Why not just let it go? You are not the only A/C guy on the planet. Contribute what you can and step off Griff's dick. I don't even see the need to attack Rennaire.
08-20-2015, 03:12 PM
#6
Addressing your questions:
1) "Why not the same filter immediately downstream of the compressor?"
Aftermarket inline filters have been available for many years for the automotive market. However the best proactive approach is design or choose a system that has a high reliability rate and to use a binary pressure switch, which Griffiths has been providing with its systems, rather than wait until the compressor tosses its cookies.
2) PF in LH front fender; "Might the performance improvement be so great as to be able to remove the problematic engine lid condenser."
In 1989 the 964 C4 was introduced with tube and fin in that location, however the blower fan is quite large. And, many people hack in a used 964 or 993 condenser and blower unit. There are plenty of threads on Pelican and Rennlist where you can read about; the threads already exist.
3) "So, does anyone make a simple inline refrigerant filter that could be installed in the discharge line upstream of the condenser? "
Again, in line splice in filters have been used for years, however you would NOT want it "upstream of the condenser" rather you would want it down stream.
If you do decide to install an inline filter insure the flow rate matches your needs.
In terms of system design and number of condensers, it all depends upon what is needed. In terms of which system a car owners needs, and apparently you do not need much in your climate area, it all comes down to reliability, customer support and historical performance data.
Kuehl Chillin-in-the-black-forest
1) "Why not the same filter immediately downstream of the compressor?"
Aftermarket inline filters have been available for many years for the automotive market. However the best proactive approach is design or choose a system that has a high reliability rate and to use a binary pressure switch, which Griffiths has been providing with its systems, rather than wait until the compressor tosses its cookies.
2) PF in LH front fender; "Might the performance improvement be so great as to be able to remove the problematic engine lid condenser."
In 1989 the 964 C4 was introduced with tube and fin in that location, however the blower fan is quite large. And, many people hack in a used 964 or 993 condenser and blower unit. There are plenty of threads on Pelican and Rennlist where you can read about; the threads already exist.
3) "So, does anyone make a simple inline refrigerant filter that could be installed in the discharge line upstream of the condenser? "
Again, in line splice in filters have been used for years, however you would NOT want it "upstream of the condenser" rather you would want it down stream.
If you do decide to install an inline filter insure the flow rate matches your needs.
In terms of system design and number of condensers, it all depends upon what is needed. In terms of which system a car owners needs, and apparently you do not need much in your climate area, it all comes down to reliability, customer support and historical performance data.
Kuehl Chillin-in-the-black-forest