Hello,

i'm a first time poster to Rennlist and have been looking at some 911s lately and have some questions regarding them. I'm going to be selling my 1966 Lemans convertible and would like to pick up a sports car for the weekend and fun trips. I have been also looking at some Ferrari 308s also but I think the maintenence is going to kill me on them.

1. Does the 911 cost less to maintain than a 308?

2. I'm sure the 911 out performs the 308 (I'm I right on this one?)

3. I would like to get into either a Targa or a Cab. What am I going to get for 20,000-25,000? Our local salesguy is trying to get me into a 81 coupe with 23,xxx for 20 grand to me that sounds a little steep.

Thanks for the help and look forward to contributing to the forum.

Pat

 

Hi Pat,

Porsche: a habit that is more expensive than a crack addiction and can be more painful than a ritualistic beating, but worth every minute.

A Porsche will be cheaper than the Ferrari, especially when it comes to maintenance. There is a great deal of information and parts available for the Porsche allowing you to do most or all of the work yourself. That and the fact that there is no comparison between German engineering and Italian design (I refuse to call it engineering). The Italians make some really pretty things but...

I bought my first Porsche (914) when I was 15 and have been in love with them ever since. I have only owned two but I had the first one for almost 10 years.

I think that $20,000 for an 81 is a little steep. You may end up replacing a good deal of components from lack of use. Lowe mileage is no guarantee on condition. Check out Excellence magazine which commonly has a Market Update on pricing. For online pricing check out www.kbb.com or www.edmunds.com.

As far as other prices: I saw a 1992 C4 (AWD) coupe with 70,000 miles on it at the local Porsche dealer in New Hampshire with a sticker price of $29,000. I am not sure what they would sell it for but it looked very nice.

If you want reliability go for a newer car. If you like to tinker and build things go for an older car.

Good Luck

 

You can easily get yourself a nice one for that kind of money...Pricing is through the floor now.

Typically the advice is to buy the newest one you can find. As for the reliability and maintenance issues, if you find one that's maintained they can last upwards of 200k easily. Whatever you consider buying just be sure to check back in here and let us know since certain models / years have bugaboos to watch for. Also, find a dedicated Porsche mechanic and prepare to spend a few dollars on an inspection.

My 81 SC has over 217k on it's drivetrain, still runs perfectly.

And on the Ferrari- Ted Verrick said it best:

"Italian Trash"

(hey Todd, you reading this? Heh, heh!)

Enjoy.

rjp

 

The maintenance will be a lot less than on a 308. This is simply because 911's tend to be easier to maintain and since there are so many parts sources around, the prices are a lot cheaper. Durability wise, I have never owned any car more durable than either the SC or Carrara 3.2. As far as performance, it depends on the 308. Carbed 308's are quick. Injected 308's are slower than carbed unless they are a quattrovalvole. If the webers are tuned right in a carbed, they run well. This is essential for not only the performance, but for emissions also. I have a friend with a carbed one that is pretty quick. Actually, last time I spoke to him, other than stupid little niggles that every car has, mechanically his 308 has been pretty good. He used to run at the track with me and the car was pretty fast. When I drove his car, and he mine, it was a revelation to both of us. The reason being how much the cars kind of felt like each other to drive. We found it uncanny how two competing companies with cars so fundamentally different were so close in their parameters and even some handling characteristics. Acceleration felt the same. Since my SC is lightened and is set up to oversteer, I felt a tiny hair more understeer in the 308. But it was nothing a little throtle steering wouldn't correct. And it responded very well to inputs. I felt very connected as I do in a 911. It felt very mechanical too, like most real 911's do. There is something to be said for cars that weren't designed for any moron to drive well like cars made today. I didn't want to stop driving the 308 because I felt comfortable right out of the bat and the subtle differences really made me smile. He didn't want to get out of my car either. His 308 was lightened up a bit too.

I am an air-cooled 911 freak. But I also love any Ferrari designed by Leonardo Fiorovanti. And the 308 has to be his masterpiece. It is timeless. It looks the way an exotic car should. Low, not made for everybody to fit in, the right curves, the perfect dashboard with that little binnacle and the sides blending into the door panels, the windshield coming just up to your head, the veglia gauges, the circular dash vents which are so Ferrari, and of course the gated shifter. This is a car made when Ferraris looked and sounded like Ferraris. When Ferraris and Porsches weren't a little something for everyone, but instead everything for someone. Ferraris now sound just like hot hatchbacks with a custom exhaust unless you are revving the guts out of them. Just driving at parking lot speeds in a 308 brings out the right noises. The same can be said for Porsches made in the eighties and earlier.

I really like air cooled Porsches, but I will always want a 308 also. These two cars are icons. They are arguably the two most easily recognizable sports cars on the road. Even the interiors, sounds and even smells of both cars are. Whatever happened to leather that smells like leather. I have had this desire for a while which is to take a 308QV, remove the fuel injection and put in the carbs from an early 308 with maybe some wilder cams. Would be one hell of a car.

On the subject of price, 21K for an 81 is very high unless the car has very, very low miles and looks like it left the showroom. At the price range you mention, you should be in G50 Carrera (87-89) territory. Heck, I am thinking about selling my 88 for less than that. For a little more one can even get into a not so perfect 930. Any 911 produced in the eighties have amazing durability and are not only very affordable to maintain, but they are simple to also. Shop around.

 

Ed-couldn't agree with you more on the 308. Still one of the prettiest cars ever designed and if I find a nice one down the road it will be next to my SC. An early fiberglass-bodied car would be even better.....

The maintenance is the issue, especially on the timing belts.

 

Thanks for all the input. I think the 308 will have to wait for a while. It seems my choice is going to be a 911 either a targa or a cab. The 81 I looked at 20 grand had 23,000 miles on it and the inside looked pretty good but the paint didn't look like it came off the showroom floor so from what you guys have said and what I thought that car IS overpriced (and this is from a guy that my family has bought over 200 k in the last 2 years from)

Any thoughts on a Targa or a Cab? Like I said earlier I'm going to be selling my classic ragtop for this and don't know if I could handle being in a coupe for my fun car.

Thanks again and keep the coments coming.

Pat

 

Pat, I'm a long time porsche owner (have also owned too many other sports cars)...you'll love the porsches. 20k seems a bit high. About 4 months ago I bought an original 80SC Targa with 80k miles for 9500. Since it was original (no rust, no dents, just ugly original brown color) off to the body shop it went and had a ground up. Still have less into it then the 20k they are asking...i'd look around some. You'll like the targa's over the cabs (at least me) because you get that open air feeling but when you have that top on it's tight, more rigid and less noisy then a cab. Nice compromise between a coupe and cab. Best thing to do is go test drive both and see which one get's the old heart pumping faster!

Good luck!

 

Yes, a 911 is:

1) cheaper than then a 308...

2) way way cheaper to maintain...

3) (depending on the year), faster.


If you are looking for a Targa, then your best bet for reliability and price would be an "SC". These were made from 78-83.


-MAS

 

Does the Targa have a abundence of wind noise with the top off? The salesguy I was talking to said not to buy a Targa because of the wind noise although I think hewas just trying to sell me the overpriced coupe he has.

 

Alot more than a coupe, no more than a cab..in my opinion. But since you are used to open air driving the "outside" noise will not be an issue. From my experience though, normal driving there is no real noise issue. Get it over 80 with the top off and you'll get some noise! Now, with the top on and properly adjusted, you don't get any of the noise that is typical with cabs.

 

Drive both a Cab & Targa w/ the tops up & down at various speeds. Both are likely to leak a little in the rain. Which is superior is strictly a matter of personal preference. If you get into the "which is better, a SC or Carrera / 915 Carrera or G-50 Carrera?" discussion, you will launch a lengthy thread (which is ok...). Search the site & you'll get tons of facts & opinion, all worthy of review. Every real sports car enthusiast should own a 911 at some point in their life.

 

If you want to do any autocrossing or high speed driving, consider a coupe. The body is much more rigid than the coupe or ragtop. And there is no considerable wind noise.

I got into a 911 without sacrificing that american convertible iron. I now have both and the two cars are so different that they nicely complement each other. In my eyes the smoother, softer ride in the american iron goes much better with the topless fun.

You should look into 100k mile SC coupes or maybe carreras, they should be available in the 10-18k range, leaving you room to keep the poncho. At 100k miles a well kept 78-89 911 is barely broken in!

George

 

As a Targa owner I can tell you that the wind noise is not at all bad for such an open car. Also, for the average driver, the "stiffness" (or lack of stiffness) is not an issue, since both the coupe and the targa will feel much more solid and "planted" that the average car. Please don't get the impression that the targas feel loose or wallow around corners... they do not!

For normal and even "spirited" driving, my targa feels no different that other coupes I have driven. However, if you are considering to seriously race the car, then the extra ridgidity of the coupe is an advantage.

-MAS

 

I have an 86 Cabriolet. It doesnt leak at all, in the rain or in the car wash. It is completely quiet when the top is up. Ive driven it at 90 on the expressway with the top down and other than being windy, its not too bad of sound.

Check out the cars on Ebay. If you see one you like, contact the owner and make an offer directly.

 

i recommend the carrera (84-89) for power, speed, reliability, raw-ness, driver involvement, and ease/cost of maintence. i am very *very* satisfied with my targa: it is great for open air driving (perfect for california weather), but the rear windshield helps keep the wind from destroying your girl's hairdo (just roll up the windows and the wind floats right over) and, more importantly, functions as a rollbar should the worst ever happen. i personally would never get a cab (sans rollbar) because i've seen some ugly crashes and don't care to get decapitated/smeared across the pavement. i also love the way targas look, especially with the top off. as far as body flex goes, i've done some pretty hard cornering and haven't been able to discern any body flex (it feels incredibly solid no matter how hard i corner), but i plan to get a triangulated brace for the front end regardless. they also sell body braces that subtley install behind the seats, but i think that may be overkill. yeah...the targa is unbelievable fun, and a well-adjusted roof won't be noisy or leak. overall, a very versatile package. another advantage is that it is not as inviting to thieves as a cab is, which helps with piece of mind if you take it out to dinner and have to leave it parked. around here, so many cab tops get slashed, it's kind of ridiculous. some guy in LA also sells "hard tops" for the targa, but i have yet to check it out and have heard mixed reviews. in the end, i think targas can't be beat in terms of the fun factor vs safety compromise, and you will be hard pressed to find a more reliable car than a stock carrera. as mentioned, these engines have an impressive longevity. so enjoy the hunt!

ps i gather that insurance will be a lot more palatable for an older porsche vs an older ferrari. i would do some research on that.

pps estimated costs of ownership for a well-taken care of carrera tend to be around $1500/annum