3.2 max hp
08-01-2003, 04:28 AM
#2
RL Technical Advisor
Eric:
A few questions to be answered before I reply,...
1) N/A or turbocharged?
2)Emissions legal or not?
3)Streetable or a race engine?
Answer those, and I'll help,......
A few questions to be answered before I reply,...
1) N/A or turbocharged?
2)Emissions legal or not?
3)Streetable or a race engine?
Answer those, and I'll help,......
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WCSROW (06-02-2022)
08-02-2003, 03:50 AM
#4
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Eric:
Thanks for the additional info; that helps.
A street-friendly, emissions legal 3.2 with Motronic can do around 235-250 HP with a chip, good exhaust & muffler, 964 cams, twin-ignition, and some intake modifications.
If one has the budget to install a tall butterfly intake system and aftermarket engine management like DTA, you can do better,....
Thanks for the additional info; that helps.
A street-friendly, emissions legal 3.2 with Motronic can do around 235-250 HP with a chip, good exhaust & muffler, 964 cams, twin-ignition, and some intake modifications.
If one has the budget to install a tall butterfly intake system and aftermarket engine management like DTA, you can do better,....
08-02-2003, 04:53 PM
#5
Steve,
Thanks for the advice, but I am a little confused. I thought that the stock exhaust is the weak link (as far as horsepower) on the US 3.2L motors, and that SIGNIFICANT horsepower can only be gained by removing the stock heat exchangers, cat and single inlet muffler and going to the pre-74 style exhaust with SSI's and a dual inlet muffler. This will not keep the car street legal (at least in California) and is the reason that I have not done this. I was also under the impression that the exhaust system is the major difference in the US power output of 214-217 vs. the Euro power output of 231? I think the CR may be a bit higher on the Euro 3.2L pistons as well, right?
What other exhaust system(s) are you referring to that remains street legal by keeping the cat and still flows properly? Is there a dual cat/dual inlet muffler combo available? The exhaust system routing that Porsche had to do because of emissions requirements is not very good, I can't see where good power can be gained by both sets of pipes having to go through the single cat and than into the muffler. I certainly welcome your feedback because this is something that I would like to do not only for the power increase, but also for the sound enhancement. Gotta keep the car 100% emissions legal though.
Ralph
P.S. - One last question, on many cars changing the camshaft(s) does nothing (or very little) without also changing the exhaust system. Is this also the case for the 3.2L motor? I would consider the 964 cams if they will make power with the stock 3.2L exhaust since the SSI/dual inlet muffler is out of the question.
Thanks for the advice, but I am a little confused. I thought that the stock exhaust is the weak link (as far as horsepower) on the US 3.2L motors, and that SIGNIFICANT horsepower can only be gained by removing the stock heat exchangers, cat and single inlet muffler and going to the pre-74 style exhaust with SSI's and a dual inlet muffler. This will not keep the car street legal (at least in California) and is the reason that I have not done this. I was also under the impression that the exhaust system is the major difference in the US power output of 214-217 vs. the Euro power output of 231? I think the CR may be a bit higher on the Euro 3.2L pistons as well, right?
What other exhaust system(s) are you referring to that remains street legal by keeping the cat and still flows properly? Is there a dual cat/dual inlet muffler combo available? The exhaust system routing that Porsche had to do because of emissions requirements is not very good, I can't see where good power can be gained by both sets of pipes having to go through the single cat and than into the muffler. I certainly welcome your feedback because this is something that I would like to do not only for the power increase, but also for the sound enhancement. Gotta keep the car 100% emissions legal though.
Ralph
P.S. - One last question, on many cars changing the camshaft(s) does nothing (or very little) without also changing the exhaust system. Is this also the case for the 3.2L motor? I would consider the 964 cams if they will make power with the stock 3.2L exhaust since the SSI/dual inlet muffler is out of the question.
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sv (06-20-2022)
08-02-2003, 06:41 PM
#6
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Ralph:
You are correct, the Carrera's exhaust system is not ideal and when additional performance is needed, we will install a pair of SSI's and a Monty Sport Muffler.
For smog testing every two years, the OEM HE's, cat, and muffler system is reinstalled and if the hardware is liberally coated with a copper-based antiseize, this becomes pretty easy to do.
964 cams are a great upgrade and will not affect smog compliance. The addition of the SSI's and Sport Muffler simply adds to it.
Euro 3.2's initially had a higher CR.
You are correct, the Carrera's exhaust system is not ideal and when additional performance is needed, we will install a pair of SSI's and a Monty Sport Muffler.
For smog testing every two years, the OEM HE's, cat, and muffler system is reinstalled and if the hardware is liberally coated with a copper-based antiseize, this becomes pretty easy to do.
964 cams are a great upgrade and will not affect smog compliance. The addition of the SSI's and Sport Muffler simply adds to it.
Euro 3.2's initially had a higher CR.
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08-03-2003, 12:05 AM
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US 207 bhp version vs EU 231
Hi Steve,
Interesting subject this one.
I have a US version Carrera 3.2 from 86 and as I understand I have a lower CR than the European version from pre 87. However from 87 to 89 the European version got the same CR as the US version but without cat. Does this mean that it became the same engine from 87 except from the management system and a cat.
As I live in Sweden I do not need to have a cat and I have replaced it with a cat bypass. Can I get the 231 bhp by upgrading the DME chip or are there some other parts that differs?
BTW, I did get some positive results on the mid rpm register when I removed the catalyst.
Best regards
Anders
Interesting subject this one.
I have a US version Carrera 3.2 from 86 and as I understand I have a lower CR than the European version from pre 87. However from 87 to 89 the European version got the same CR as the US version but without cat. Does this mean that it became the same engine from 87 except from the management system and a cat.
As I live in Sweden I do not need to have a cat and I have replaced it with a cat bypass. Can I get the 231 bhp by upgrading the DME chip or are there some other parts that differs?
BTW, I did get some positive results on the mid rpm register when I removed the catalyst.
Best regards
Anders
08-03-2003, 12:08 AM
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Eric,
I was able to get 335HP out of an '84 euro engine (so I started with higher compression). No not smog legal as it had B&B headers, and my own designed dual Ultraflo Dynomax mufflers with a balance pipe. Used a MAF system, custom software, 993RS cams (can't remember advance), high spark ignition, high flow fuel regulator, LWF, ported heads with stiff springs and Titanium retainers, and extrude honed intake. I know I am forgetting somethings, but you can get reasonable power out of these motors. Of course keeping it smog legal is a problem...
Good luck..
I was able to get 335HP out of an '84 euro engine (so I started with higher compression). No not smog legal as it had B&B headers, and my own designed dual Ultraflo Dynomax mufflers with a balance pipe. Used a MAF system, custom software, 993RS cams (can't remember advance), high spark ignition, high flow fuel regulator, LWF, ported heads with stiff springs and Titanium retainers, and extrude honed intake. I know I am forgetting somethings, but you can get reasonable power out of these motors. Of course keeping it smog legal is a problem...
Good luck..
08-03-2003, 02:30 AM
#10
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Anders:
You are correct; from '87 the engines are the same except for the ECU and cat. You ought to be able to get close to the 231 HP with a proper chip (98 RON) and a cat bypass.
Bob has had much better success than I have; I've never seen over 300 HP from a single ignition, Motronic injected 3.2 with mild cams like the 993 RS ones.
I've gotten well over 325 HP on a 3.2, but it had really good heads, 11.5:1 CR, tall butterfly RSR or slide injection MFI or carbs, early RSR-type or GE 100 cams with headers, and a set of our race mufflers. Of course, the internals were VERY well "massaged",...
IMHO, 260-270 HP from a well done smog-legal 3.2 is about it.
These figures were from either our 800 HP Go-Power dyno or the new 1000 HP SuperFlow engine dyno.
You are correct; from '87 the engines are the same except for the ECU and cat. You ought to be able to get close to the 231 HP with a proper chip (98 RON) and a cat bypass.
Bob has had much better success than I have; I've never seen over 300 HP from a single ignition, Motronic injected 3.2 with mild cams like the 993 RS ones.
I've gotten well over 325 HP on a 3.2, but it had really good heads, 11.5:1 CR, tall butterfly RSR or slide injection MFI or carbs, early RSR-type or GE 100 cams with headers, and a set of our race mufflers. Of course, the internals were VERY well "massaged",...
IMHO, 260-270 HP from a well done smog-legal 3.2 is about it.
These figures were from either our 800 HP Go-Power dyno or the new 1000 HP SuperFlow engine dyno.
08-03-2003, 06:03 AM
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Thank you for a great answer Steve, 
Today I'm driving with the lambda but without the catalyst. As I see it the lambda can do a valueble work by collecting data for the ECU. Shall Ikeep it or disconnect it and how do I do that, just disconnect it or perhaps connect the cables in some way. What kind of DME chip shall I use, one for a catalyst or one for the european version without cat.
Best regards
Anders
Today I'm driving with the lambda but without the catalyst. As I see it the lambda can do a valueble work by collecting data for the ECU. Shall Ikeep it or disconnect it and how do I do that, just disconnect it or perhaps connect the cables in some way. What kind of DME chip shall I use, one for a catalyst or one for the european version without cat.
Best regards
Anders
08-03-2003, 02:28 PM
#12
RL Technical Advisor
My pleasure, anytime,...
Motronic engines run MUCH better in closed-loop; that is, with the oxysensor connected and functioning. The cat is optional.
If you do not have the cat, then use a chip for such a vehicle. The A/F ratios are rather different.
Motronic engines run MUCH better in closed-loop; that is, with the oxysensor connected and functioning. The cat is optional.
If you do not have the cat, then use a chip for such a vehicle. The A/F ratios are rather different.
08-03-2003, 05:44 PM
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Steve,
I apologize as I did screw up my numbers. It was 305 not 335 HP for my 3.2. That would have been something. Should have spent a little more time reviewing my post, especially regarding HP figures. And can't find the specs anymore on the Webcam site, but they were probably the 993SS cams as they were mechanical lifters and a fairly radical grind, especially for a 3.2. Oh, and I forgot to mention the throttle body work, and the knife edge crank. Funny thing was, I was putting out 297HP until I connected the negative ground from the battery directly to the transaxle with 4 guage welding cable. Then HP moved up over 300... Never underestimate the value of a good ground...
Sure worked nice on a 24xx lb Carrera with Big Reds, coilovers, and a Quaife...
I apologize as I did screw up my numbers. It was 305 not 335 HP for my 3.2. That would have been something. Should have spent a little more time reviewing my post, especially regarding HP figures. And can't find the specs anymore on the Webcam site, but they were probably the 993SS cams as they were mechanical lifters and a fairly radical grind, especially for a 3.2. Oh, and I forgot to mention the throttle body work, and the knife edge crank. Funny thing was, I was putting out 297HP until I connected the negative ground from the battery directly to the transaxle with 4 guage welding cable. Then HP moved up over 300... Never underestimate the value of a good ground...
Sure worked nice on a 24xx lb Carrera with Big Reds, coilovers, and a Quaife...
