late apex

GrantG, Thanks for the helpful information on the link to a similar car, tremendous help and I appreciate it. I need more education and quick. There sure seems to be a premium on the lightweight vs. touring, I'd say about double.

In return for your opinions on value of the car in the link, I will post the vin of the car I am looking at as soon as the owner either accepts or rejects the offer I make on it. Hopefully this is fair ?

Brian 96C2

The RSR conversion at Paradise Garage is VIN #9113600196. It was sold at Amelia Island in 2002 for $93,000. That doesn't include the buyer's premium. Here is a comment made by an auction observer who looked at the car:"Conversion of RS to RSR specs by Reuttmaier. Decent panel fit for a racer-type car. Right front has apparent repaired accident damage. Very presentable paint and good chrome. Underhood and interior clean, but not detailed. Mag wheels look a bit tired."

So $145K is over priced for sure.

JackOlsen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by late apex:
<strong>In return for your opinions on value of the car in the link, I will post the vin of the car I am looking at as soon as the owner either accepts or rejects the offer I make on it. Hopefully this is fair ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Huh? What does fairness have to do with it? You post on this board, looking for help, and now it's like you're playing some kind of a game.

How on earth would keeping the VIN a secret benefit you?

late apex

Jack,
I'm asking the value of a modified RS,such as the one on Paradise garage's website, or the one on classiccar.com(9113600058).That's my only question . Grant had good info, and Brian had good info. Thanks guys.

Jack,you have interpreted this to mean that I am asking if the car I have found is a real RS. That's not what I am asking.I said I'd let you know the vin when I bought it and I thought that was fair.

These are two completely different questions.
One is mine and one is yours.

There are many reasons not to broadcast the vin of this car until I have actually bought it.

Sorry it came off as "playing games" Jack. By the way, your car is great. I'd like to see more photos.

Guys, thanks for the help !

RS racer

There isn't a lot of guessing required here. The VIN number will be on the left side under the hood. If it is an original M471 you have hit the jackpot as only 200 were made and they were never imported.

The modifications regardless of how nicely they were done will most certainly devalue the car. Anyhting can be modified but only an original is an original.

A modified M471 was auctioned at Amelia Island last year and brought modest money, where a good example went for $150,000.

Good luck

Porschephanatic

Jack, I think I can see late apex's point. If he disclosed the VIN(and it's an authentic RS), someone(who could afford it, not me) could find out who the owner was in minutes, and start a bidding WAR, couldn't they? I hope late's not just jerking us around.

JackOlsen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Porschephanatic:
<strong>Jack, I think I can see late apex's point. If he disclosed the VIN(and it's an authentic RS), someone(who could afford it, not me) could find out who the owner was in minutes, and start a bidding WAR, couldn't they? I hope late's not just jerking us around.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No. Nothing about the VIN discloses its current owner, unless the seller is advertising it heavily. Late Apex said he found it in his neighborhood.

Having the VIN would allow people to determine what options the car originally came with, and that would go a long way toward establishing its value. Simply saying what the seller claims about the car only muddies the water with regard to its value. In the strange world of collectible Porsches, it doesn't really matter so much what it has now, as what it had then.

I don't mean to be a pain in the butt on this, but the only way to determine the value of the car and the mods made to the car is to start with the VIN. Authenticity more than anything else is the deciding factor in the value of these cars (unlike my car, which -- while it has many virtues -- is not authentic in any sense of the word).

late apex

Jack, your car is authentically cool....
Give me the vin, and if it is titled by that there is a chance I could tell you the address on the title within a couple of days,maybe a couple of hours.
I could even make a fake title to it and say it was mine. Or I could make it look like collateral for a loan you never took out.
Heck I don't know, I'm not devious, but VIN #s are tied to owners by states, insurance companies,banks,FIA papers,SCCA records, and books about Porsches. Then there is the competing bidder thing too.
Re: the car, I guess I was hoping people viewed it like I did, As a Wolf in Gorilla's clothing.
I wanted to talk about the value of modified Carreras in general, not this VIN deal.

JackOlsen

In general, modifications decrease value. If you have written documentation that states that the modifications were done by the factory, for a specific purpose, because the car was owned by a famous racer, then it might make it worth more. But outside of a unique, documented history, the most valuable Carrera RS would generally be the one that is absolutely unchanged from the day it left the factory.

If my car had begun life as a Carrera RS, the mods I made would have completely destroyed its value. But mine was a T (VIN 9112100777).

Get a PPI done on the car before you make an offer on it, since rust and collision repair can be very hard to find. You want to verify the engine and tranny serial numbers as well. The car could be worth anywhere from 40K to 140K.

911E72phil

Hey what's going on here ? This thread started with a seemingly uninformed question re a 73 Carrera which "late" was gonna offer $6500 and some lawn mowing for.

Now we're talking about a $150K car. Thats a lot of lawn mowing !

platiporsch

sounds like april fools to me

late apex

O.K., I'm not trying to make any enemys here. I can see that I have been somewhat wrong in the way I have gone about this.Jack I'll send you a private message explaining this, but I'm not going to post any more on the thread. Thanks

jet911

Wow, thank goodness it's over.... late seems to be up late in the night......... Amazing that someone would post a thread telling everyone about this great deal in the "hood", ask for advice, state he was going to make a low ball offer including some lawn mowing for a "real" $150K Carrera. Then when people in the know step up to help, they are nearly accused of trying to steal the car out from under the guy.... Wow... what a crazy world........

ToyCollector

Hey guys, let's chill a bit. I personally know Late Apex and was with him at last weekend's HSR event, going "RSR shopping". The man is very well dialed into finding both REAL and non-real RSRs and the like--it's actually frightening. I think he started the thread a little tongue in cheek with some humor. As I have watched him look and decide on some cars, (including the one in his 'hood), I myself have learned that the race car RSR world is an interesting quandery. Do you find and buy a real one, have a long term good "investment" (I hate saying that about cars), and be scared crapless you will wreck it during a race? Or do you get a clone, and race the wheels off of it? And in my case, it would still be a dollar amount I would not want to wad up into a wall. The dollar differentials between the two choices is significant in some cases. LateApex's reasons for not disclosing the VIN until he has the car are real. Discussions at HSR validated some bidding wars, a particular car that needs to be validated as to authenticity due to crash history, and a certain wealthy gentleman from overseas who is on the prowl to replace his recently wrecked RSR in a Monte Carlo event. I commend all who have provided good info.

Just bring weapons if you ever visit Late Apex in his 'hood <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

jet911

OK, OK... It's just interesting that someone out of the blue asks for help, then when people who know how to help ask for the only real piece of information that can verify i.e., the VIN, it's kept more secret than the whereabouts of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...And why come here and ask in the first place if you already know....

Good luck!