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3.2 Owner, requiring advice on performance

Old 10-19-2012, 09:41 PM
  #46  
jackb911
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When I bought my '87 Carrera in 2001, the PO had installed a chip, IIRC it was an Autothority.

Obviously the timing had been pushed too much with that chip as there was some occasional but very noticeable pinging (detonation) so I immediately installed the factory chip that was in the glovebox.

With the OEM chip installed, the powerband changed from having great WOT top end to having noticeably better low end power with zero pinging. BTW, I run Chevron 93 octane.

With that said, I won't trade engine longevity for 10 more horsepower. I put my Carrera on a a diet, it's now 2560 lbs. and it is plenty quick for me even with a bone stock 3.2, aside from a M&K sport muffler and a cat bypass. Then again, I'm not a speed demon on the street and my track days are ancient history.

It's your car, do what makes YOU happy.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:42 PM
  #47  
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^B&B headers have the heat boxes available. I don't know of anyone using Autothority chips any more. I never had a problem with "not having" a rev limiter. With the values of these cars on the upswing, one needs to think very hard before going to FG body parts.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:01 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Ed Hughes View Post
^B&B headers have the heat boxes available. I don't know of anyone using Autothority chips any more. I never had a problem with "not having" a rev limiter. With the values of these cars on the upswing, one needs to think very hard before going to FG body parts.
Yes i bought the Authothority chip about 13 years ago.

Fibre Glass Bumper spoilers don't remove any value so long as you don't throw out the original equipment. It all bolts back up.

But what an immediate noticeable difference w/o the weight and the looks are great too, very Steve McQueen.

I don't think Porsche ever would have tacked those heavy aluminum girders on the 911 if it were not for our glorious leaders in DC.

But on that subject of modifications, definitely think before you chop!
Fender flares will remove value big time if you think you will sell.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:03 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by jackb911 View Post
When I bought my '87 Carrera in 2001, the PO had installed a chip, IIRC it was an Autothority.

Obviously the timing had been pushed too much with that chip as there was some occasional but very noticeable pinging (detonation) so I immediately installed the factory chip that was in the glovebox.

With the OEM chip installed, the powerband changed from having great WOT top end to having noticeably better low end power with zero pinging. BTW, I run Chevron 93 octane.

With that said, I won't trade engine longevity for 10 more horsepower. I put my Carrera on a a diet, it's now 2560 lbs. and it is plenty quick for me even with a bone stock 3.2, aside from a M&K sport muffler and a cat bypass. Then again, I'm not a speed demon on the street and my track days are ancient history.

It's your car, do what makes YOU happy.
Agreed, and beautiful Carrera you have there.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:51 AM
  #50  
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Thanks for the kind words. Except for the TRE bumpers and the ducktail, she's all real Porsche steel. A few weeks ago I almost traded it for a buddy's '07 GT3 (+ a pile of cash) but fortunately I came to my senses.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:15 AM
  #51  
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This has become a very pleasant and enjoyable thread to read not like the
ones usually found over on the 'Dark Side'. But this is Rennlist, way above the
other one, i.e. a credit to all.
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:44 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by jackb911 View Post
Thanks for the kind words. Except for the TRE bumpers and the ducktail, she's all real Porsche steel. A few weeks ago I almost traded it for a buddy's '07 GT3 (+ a pile of cash) but fortunately I came to my
senses.
you sure did, we are driving real classics.

The newer cars do everything so well...yawn, you know the rest.

Beautiful car and a keeper for sure.

My '86 have never cost me a dime i didn't want to spend.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:34 PM
  #53  
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'86 3.2 @ 221 RWHP with 91 Octane fuel:
Mass Flow intake sensor, honed intakes, enlarged throttle valve & replaced air box with oversized cone filter.
1989 Weltmeister Chip (will do custom Steve Wong chip someday when we can coordinate the time & facilities).
Dyno tuned adjustable fuel pressure.
Stepped headers (1 5/8 to 1 3/4).
All stock internals 'cept upgraded rod bolts, AASE valve springs & Ti retainers.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:21 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by rachnath View Post
I was wonder if anyone can advise me of what I could do to, well in simple terms make my 3.2 go noticeable quicker. Say 20- 30 more power and torque. However still be reliable for road use, maintain a standard look and be of reasonable value for the mods.

I understand I could sell the car and for 20k's or so more possibly get a later 993. however I really like the 3.2 and also because I know the history of this vehicle I would prefer to keep this car.

I dont want to butcher the car, I just want more performance, sorry if it upsets some of you purist. I am trying to be methodical and careful because it's a beautiful machine. Thank you.

My advice, for what it is worth, is to fit a 993 non-varioram engine. They make 270-280hp out of the box with around 20% more torque than a 3.2 and return better fuel efficiency to boot. Sell the 3.2 engine to offset the install cost and it's a win-win situation.

Around 12 years ago I had this discussion with a potential customer from London who did not really want to listen to what I was saying, so rather than go for our suggested engine change (circa ú7k) he let a local specialist hook him into a single plug 3.5 conversion with S cams, Webers and SSI exhaust. The nett result was an engine that never made more than 260hp or 14mpg. Said specialist & a few other "carb tuners" took ú20k off Henry.

About a year later a London 3.2 owning Architect came to me with the same idea, but this time he listened to me and had a 993 non-Varioram engine fitted, total cost ú6900. Ten years later I bought the 993 engine'd 3.2 Carrera from the Architect when his wife made him buy a new car. Apart from servicing the engine had cost him a set of plug leads and a pair of distributor caps in 40,000 miles; average fuel consumption in the lighter 3.2 Carrera was 24mpg around town, although he did report runs of 32mpg on the way to Italy and back. I dyno tested the engine after I bought it and it made 277hp; fitted a 9m Motec kit for a trial and it punched over 300hp on the dyno.

The moral of the story is that, with suitable exhaust/remap/K&N & 98 octane fuel you can make 240-245hp from a perfect 3.2 Carrera. Fit 964 cams and you might see 250. If you want more than this, fit a 3.6 and be done with it.

Here's a photo of the car and engine as it arrived back from my customer:
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:30 AM
  #55  
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"The moral of the story is that, with suitable exhaust/remap/K&N & 98 octane fuel you can make 240-245hp from a perfect 3.2 Carrera. Fit 964 cams and you might see 250. If you want more than this, fit a 3.6 and be done with it. "


Thank you for that insight.

It's probably a little bigger change than I had initially envisaged, however it's good food for thought, and also if I did go to that extent I would probably keep the original 3.2 engine in storage.

That said,

Can I assume only the engine was changed?
The computer as well?
The gear box remained as per the 3.2 etc?
The engine mountings are in the same location?
Any other part of notable significance also needs to be replaced?

Is it just un bolt the 3.2 , and fit the 3.6, that's all?

Kind regards.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:49 AM
  #56  
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The problem with a 3.6 swap, when comparing the economic, is the unknown factor. There have been a few that have had to go into the 3.6 the obtained for some level of rebuild. That negates the cost difference, but if one wants that level of HP-it may be worth it.

Me, I wanted the opportunity to build my motor, I did, and came close to the 3.6 power. I know that isn't for everyone.
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:26 AM
  #57  
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I've done both. Neither are cheap. My single plug 3.4 with all the goodies made 287HP (on probably a generous dyno) on my old cabriolet. it did go like stink and a fairly heavy car... On this car the 3.6 needed a rebuild (after showing ZERO compression on number 3) that was not cheap. Now I have a known quantity now. - and what you really feel with the 3.6 is the added torque, especially in the lower end.
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:29 PM
  #58  
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I appreciate the fear of the unknown with a used engine, but with the cost of a typical top end rebuild on a sensible mileage 993 motor at ú5-6000, even with the cost of the transplant it would still work out a lot cheaper than building a 3.5 litre with controlled leakage fuel system (carbs to you and me).


Originally Posted by rachnath View Post
"The moral of the story is that, with suitable exhaust/remap/K&N & 98 octane fuel you can make 240-245hp from a perfect 3.2 Carrera. Fit 964 cams and you might see 250. If you want more than this, fit a 3.6 and be done with it. "


Thank you for that insight.

It's probably a little bigger change than I had initially envisaged, however it's good food for thought, and also if I did go to that extent I would probably keep the original 3.2 engine in storage.

That said,

Can I assume only the engine was changed?
The computer as well?
The gear box remained as per the 3.2 etc?
The engine mountings are in the same location?
Any other part of notable significance also needs to be replaced?

Is it just un bolt the 3.2 , and fit the 3.6, that's all?

Kind regards.
The car received the engine and Motronic DME from the 993. The exhaust system is a hybrid of 964 heat exchangers and 3.2 Carrera back box, however I have fitted a full 964 system, a full 3.2 system and SSI systems with similar results.
My car is a 1988 and is running a stock G50 gearbox using the original clutch with a 1989 984C4 flywheel. The reason for the flywheel change is because the 993 Motronic DME needs to have a 60-2 trigger ring on the flywheel. If I did the job today I would simply machine the original 3.2 flywheel and fit a trigger ring from a 964 dual mass flywheel.
The engine uses the stock 911 3.2 engine mountings and rear frame. To fit this you have to change the rear pulley on the crank. All the 3.2 Carrera tinware is fitted to the 3.6 and make up panels are added at the front and rear (to blank the oil cooler position). Simple stuff really. Oil feed requires a custom pipe from the 3.2 S pipe to the screw fitting on the block; oil return can use originalparts (depending on exhaust choice). Fuel feed pipe is on the opposite side of the engine, a custom piece of aerquip and relocated 993 filter does the trick. If you want to use the 993 heater blower motor (and why wouldn't you?) then you have to also modify the left hand side engine lid hinge to clear the blower. All fairly straightforward stuff really....
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:50 PM
  #59  
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Thank you for the feedback 9m. I will certainly take on and consider your opinion / advise on this matter.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:11 PM
  #60  
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The other thing to consider is that in Australia there are much much fewer of these cars than either in the States or the UK. In my experience most everything Porsche costs more there because of it. While we might find a decent 3.6l engine of known history here for $6k I suspect it is likely closer to $10k Aussie just to get the engine in the first place. I might be wrong though...
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