964 vs 993
04-06-2012, 03:36 PM
#16
Instructor
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many but not all...which I guess is why we get to choose
Whalebird I agree on the D90's.... is that the poorest design they ever brought to the table? I know again subjective..
uke:
993
04-06-2012, 04:52 PM
#18
Race Car
$32K seems high unless the miles are indeed 52. If 52 mi it is a museum piece. If 52K mi the price is high, even $28-29 seems high. I would love it if the market was going up like that, but alas...
These car came with 16 and 17 wheels and while 18's can be fit, I personally think the 17's are the sweet spot. So no premium for the 18's.
Looks is a personal item so if you like the classic lines of the 911 the 964 will be pleasing. The 993 also has nice lines so pick your poison.
The 964 can claim to be the last hand built Porsche. Plus or minus?
The 964 retains the relative lightness of feel of the earlier cars, I know, they had been getting heavy year over year. The 993 no longer has any allusion of lightness, yet it is very competent.
For a great read on 964's from the early car crowd, this will give you something to think about including values.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...s-R-Gruppe-911
These car came with 16 and 17 wheels and while 18's can be fit, I personally think the 17's are the sweet spot. So no premium for the 18's.
Looks is a personal item so if you like the classic lines of the 911 the 964 will be pleasing. The 993 also has nice lines so pick your poison.
The 964 can claim to be the last hand built Porsche. Plus or minus?
The 964 retains the relative lightness of feel of the earlier cars, I know, they had been getting heavy year over year. The 993 no longer has any allusion of lightness, yet it is very competent.
For a great read on 964's from the early car crowd, this will give you something to think about including values.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...s-R-Gruppe-911
If money is no object, I would be looking at a vari-o-ram 993 C4S, otherwise a standard coupe. However a 964 Cup, or RS (NOT RSA) would be a very special car that the 993 just can't eclipse in the same money bracket. Just my thoughts, but the availability of 964s in the current market can't last forever...they have to go up. Best 911 for the money right now, and one of the best 911s at any price.
Many people think all 911s are ugly.
04-06-2012, 05:42 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
964 bias here.
While mechanically the 964 may be closer to the 993 than the 911 SC's, I view the look of the 964 much closer to the 911 SC and the 993 closer to the 996 and 997. This is due mainly to the "bug eye" headlights.
To that end I feel that "bug eye" is a necessary part of the iconic Porsche 911 look.
Here's to the iconic "bug eye" look.
While mechanically the 964 may be closer to the 993 than the 911 SC's, I view the look of the 964 much closer to the 911 SC and the 993 closer to the 996 and 997. This is due mainly to the "bug eye" headlights.
To that end I feel that "bug eye" is a necessary part of the iconic Porsche 911 look.
Here's to the iconic "bug eye" look.
(I know, I'm speaking "visual"......) (bacause I can't provide argument for torson bar cars, then the next gen).......I love my old girl ('89).
Agreed.
BEST!
Doyle
04-06-2012, 07:39 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
964 bias here.
While mechanically the 964 may be closer to the 993 than the 911 SC's, I view the look of the 964 much closer to the 911 SC and the 993 closer to the 996 and 997. This is due mainly to the "bug eye" headlights.
To that end I feel that "bug eye" is a necessary part of the iconic Porsche 911 look.
Here's to the iconic "bug eye" look.
While mechanically the 964 may be closer to the 993 than the 911 SC's, I view the look of the 964 much closer to the 911 SC and the 993 closer to the 996 and 997. This is due mainly to the "bug eye" headlights.
To that end I feel that "bug eye" is a necessary part of the iconic Porsche 911 look.
Here's to the iconic "bug eye" look.
I just got back from an aggressive drive-sure it weighs 3000lbs, but it felt quite nimble. The rear suspenders are really the thing I notice about driving difference in the 993. I've added new Bilsteins and ROW springs, lowered and corner balanced, and rebushed the control arms- so the specs are great now. But, out of the box, on original 63k shocks, mine took turns pretty well.
But, heck, I suppose the 996 is an improvement in handling, but they do feel numb.
I'm really on the verge of test driving a 991, but I'm kinda scared I might like it.
I do agree that a nice 964, looks aside, is probably the best value- I can't fit in a Boxster well.
04-06-2012, 08:01 PM
#23
Ed, I agree on the Boxster, you need to be under 6'1" and less than a size 11 shoe.
I also agree that the 991 is scary good, I wish I could hate it.
But this was a 964/993 conversation, I thought. Both are good rides, the 993 more modern, the 964 with the last hint of old school. IMHO, the 964 is a value winner, at least for the time being. Better get one soon.
And, next time you come thru town stay long enough for a beer!
I also agree that the 991 is scary good, I wish I could hate it.
But this was a 964/993 conversation, I thought. Both are good rides, the 993 more modern, the 964 with the last hint of old school. IMHO, the 964 is a value winner, at least for the time being. Better get one soon.
And, next time you come thru town stay long enough for a beer!
04-06-2012, 08:09 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
I would say the era of the low priced 964 "deal" is gone. If you look around for a 964 what you will find is:
-Most of the cars for sale are cabriolets
-Most of the cars for sale are 1989.5-1991
-Many of them are C4's
-Many of them are tiptronics
So with that being said if you are looking for a nice original lower mileage C2 manual coupe 1992-1994, prepare to pay up. I would venture to say that they are worth low $30's money in todays market. Very few of these cars were sold compared to 993's. I would be willing to bet on the desirability of said car.
These cars WILL be worth quite a bit more in the future.
Now for the market on early 964's, cabs, tips, C4's..... This is where you are finding the $13-25k 964's.
I have personally owned all iterations of 993's and 964's and I dont get peoples elitit attitudes. 964's are great cars, 993's are great cars, AIR-COOLED Porsches are great cars.
As we speak I am working on adding a 93 RSA to my stable of other GREAT air-cooled Porsches.
-Most of the cars for sale are cabriolets
-Most of the cars for sale are 1989.5-1991
-Many of them are C4's
-Many of them are tiptronics
So with that being said if you are looking for a nice original lower mileage C2 manual coupe 1992-1994, prepare to pay up. I would venture to say that they are worth low $30's money in todays market. Very few of these cars were sold compared to 993's. I would be willing to bet on the desirability of said car.
These cars WILL be worth quite a bit more in the future.
Now for the market on early 964's, cabs, tips, C4's..... This is where you are finding the $13-25k 964's.
I have personally owned all iterations of 993's and 964's and I dont get peoples elitit attitudes. 964's are great cars, 993's are great cars, AIR-COOLED Porsches are great cars.
As we speak I am working on adding a 93 RSA to my stable of other GREAT air-cooled Porsches.
04-06-2012, 08:43 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Ed, I agree on the Boxster, you need to be under 6'1" and less than a size 11 shoe.
I also agree that the 991 is scary good, I wish I could hate it.
But this was a 964/993 conversation, I thought. Both are good rides, the 993 more modern, the 964 with the last hint of old school. IMHO, the 964 is a value winner, at least for the time being. Better get one soon.
And, next time you come thru town stay long enough for a beer!
I also agree that the 991 is scary good, I wish I could hate it.
But this was a 964/993 conversation, I thought. Both are good rides, the 993 more modern, the 964 with the last hint of old school. IMHO, the 964 is a value winner, at least for the time being. Better get one soon.
And, next time you come thru town stay long enough for a beer!
My "993-96"
from today:
04-06-2012, 08:47 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I would say the era of the low priced 964 "deal" is gone. If you look around for a 964 what you will find is:
-Most of the cars for sale are cabriolets
-Most of the cars for sale are 1989.5-1991
-Many of them are C4's
-Many of them are tiptronics
So with that being said if you are looking for a nice original lower mileage C2 manual coupe 1992-1994, prepare to pay up. I would venture to say that they are worth low $30's money in todays market. Very few of these cars were sold compared to 993's. I would be willing to bet on the desirability of said car.
These cars WILL be worth quite a bit more in the future.
-Most of the cars for sale are cabriolets
-Most of the cars for sale are 1989.5-1991
-Many of them are C4's
-Many of them are tiptronics
So with that being said if you are looking for a nice original lower mileage C2 manual coupe 1992-1994, prepare to pay up. I would venture to say that they are worth low $30's money in todays market. Very few of these cars were sold compared to 993's. I would be willing to bet on the desirability of said car.
These cars WILL be worth quite a bit more in the future.
04-06-2012, 09:14 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Do a search nationwide and try to find an original low mile 1992-1994 C2 manual coupe with a good history. They just dont exist. Scarcity drives value.
We could all day long the merits of 993 vs. 964. Obviously Porsche felt the 993 was an "improvement" as did the market when they are new, just looking at the sales figures will tell you that. With that being said time changes peoples perceptions, the 964 has been under appreciated for a long time and people are realizing they got an unfair black eye because they were squeezed in the middle of two "Great" cars: the 3.2 G50 Carrera's and the 993's.
Porsche also felt the 996 was an "improvement"... In most objective measures it was, but we all know better...
FWIW I would pay top dollar to anybody who has said 964, call me a fool or just a trend prognisticator...
We could all day long the merits of 993 vs. 964. Obviously Porsche felt the 993 was an "improvement" as did the market when they are new, just looking at the sales figures will tell you that. With that being said time changes peoples perceptions, the 964 has been under appreciated for a long time and people are realizing they got an unfair black eye because they were squeezed in the middle of two "Great" cars: the 3.2 G50 Carrera's and the 993's.
Porsche also felt the 996 was an "improvement"... In most objective measures it was, but we all know better...
FWIW I would pay top dollar to anybody who has said 964, call me a fool or just a trend prognisticator...
04-06-2012, 10:13 PM
#28
The late 80's early 90's were a hard time for Porsche and the economy. The price increase for the 964 over the 3.2 was another factor that contributed to the low production numbers. Now, out of those low numbers C2 manuals make up a small percentage. There may be more RSA's than 92-94 C2 manuals.
While there may be few for sale right now over the past 6-8 months there have been quite a few at $16-20K. I found a bone stock very solid and clean '94 for $16K. As more people learn how good these cars are the prices will go up. I think the prices are up $3-4K in the last six months, but they are not into the $30's yet. RSA prices are nuts for a car that cost $10k less when new, and do not get me started on the optioned RSA's.
If I am wrong about current pricing I will be a happy owner, but don't think I will be selling anytime soon!!
While there may be few for sale right now over the past 6-8 months there have been quite a few at $16-20K. I found a bone stock very solid and clean '94 for $16K. As more people learn how good these cars are the prices will go up. I think the prices are up $3-4K in the last six months, but they are not into the $30's yet. RSA prices are nuts for a car that cost $10k less when new, and do not get me started on the optioned RSA's.
If I am wrong about current pricing I will be a happy owner, but don't think I will be selling anytime soon!!
04-06-2012, 11:02 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I agree that 964s are great cars. But for 32K you can find a similar 993 and the 993 is a better car and it has the distinction of being the last of the air cooled cars. It is the final iteration of the original 911 concept.
04-08-2012, 02:17 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Dont get sidetracked by the bad rep. I also feel that all (including my)pre-87 3.2's get a bad rep squeezed between two great cars ... The SC and the "very desirable" G 50 Carrera 3.2's.