Vintage Racer, that car is beautiful. But you should pad that roll bar if it's driven on the street.

And yes, the 'lift' is a hydraulic lift table. It's all steel, except the tile on the top.



The legs are pretty thick. Here's a shot from when it was still 'Vestil blue.'

 

Ask and ye shall receive...these pictures came from these two rebuilds---->

My rebuild thread. I am totally underwater on this car but I have learned so much and have had a great time. No regrets and I'd do it all over again:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-9...ld-thread.html

A fellow 930 addict's rebuild which I did a fair amount of work on:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-9...gine-drop.html

 

Thanks for the upfront commentary. I truly believe there is always more to the story when we see pics like this.

Brett

 

oooo good one..

 

^^ very awesome threads. I gotta read em after work.

You guys are way too clean!! I'm very happy to see the engine platform work out well for other guys.

I love Jack Olsen's lift table. I'm going to have to remember that one for later. Wait a second......getting an idea now.....

 

*Sigh* . . . . where to start? While an efficient intercooler does condense/cool the intake charge and helps to reduce the likelihood of detonation, I can assure you that a lack of efficient intercooling was most likely NOT the primary cause of the shattered rings in the photos referenced in this thread. 930 engines are inherently bulletproof (look up the 935 series if in doubt), but no engine, even the most brilliantly conceived engine that mankind has ever seen, will withstand huge amounts of turbo boost without proper tuning. The fuel mixture needs to be enriched beyond stock capabilities when under boost, ignition timing needs to be adjusted accordingly, and higher octane fuel should be used. It is FAR too easy to slap in a 1.0-1.2 bar boost spring and disable the factory boost cutout switch and go racing, for a short period of time. The primitive fuel and ignition system in a factory 930 from the 1970s cannot cope with this for long on pump gas, and something must give. Even a fancy custom EFI 930 engine will not last long if not tuned properly for the type of fuel it is to run on, no matter how overbuilt or how big of an intercooler one stuffs under the lid.

The 911 engine is inherently very robust and over-engineered (8 main bearings, anyone?), and its track record proves this. The same basic bottom end design is still used in the latest 997 GT3 RSR race cars in Le Mans to this day.

I doubt anybody here is trying to claim that air cooling is somehow superior to water cooling; of course it is not, most modern vehicles are water cooled for a reason. I suppose I should insert the standard "they are actually air AND oil cooled" line here, as well. Porsche was indeed approaching the limits of air cooling (they started water cooling the heads of the 935s in the late '70s to cope with 750+ HP, and besides emissions and noise regs the 993 engine was indeed brushing up against the practical limits of such a design). It can even be argued that the fact that the Porsche 911 engine has endured so well is in spite of its air-cooled design, not because of it: only a brilliantly engineered unit could amass the street and track record that the 911 has could cope with such cooling design. But, Porsche stuck with it and perfected it like they always have and made it work very well indeed, just like it has with the "incorrect" rear-engined configuration.

The 3.0 and 3.2 engines that are the main topics of discussion here are among the most bulletproof engines that I can think of in terms of long term durability when maintained properly and driven/fully warmed up normally. I have several customers with 911SCs and Carrera 3.2s with 300K+ miles that have NEVER had the engines apart. That is incredible. These engines are indeed relatively under-stressed in stock form, and exhibit no cooling issues to speak of when everything is working properly, even with heavy track use in hot weather.

The point is, how durable an engine is can have as much to do with what the end user is doing to it as is the inherent design of the engine. If you are trying to squeeze 400+ HP out of a 930 with bolt-on parts running 91 octane fuel, it is not going to happen, at least reliably for the long term.

My best suggestion for our friend "930newbie" is to pick up a copy of Bruce Anderson's 911 Performance Handbook and read it cover to cover. I think you will then understand the 911 engine and what it is all about, and why it can be so expensive and time-consuming to do one right. Read Pete Zimmermann's Used 911 Story while you are at it for more perspective.

 

Good Point Chris. the 959 was circa 1985 and Porsche went to Watercooled design en mass in 1999 ... 14 years later . I would hardly say they "gave up their investment " that is total conjecture .. they moved on as you rightly point out for emmisions and noise and realy were regulated into the water cooled systems .

 

911 SC's and 3.2 Carreras were expensive cars when new. Market demand and avaiabilty are pushing parts prices higher.I dont see anything out of the ordenary in the pricing of Porsche parts. You cannot compare the pricing of parts on A low production car to a GM Ford or Asian. All I can say is when they are rebuilt with attention to detail it takes time, but the results are well worth it.

 

To answer the original question, here's why it costs so much:

Mahle P&C set: $3500
Chain tensioner upgrade & sprockets: $2000
Machine shop work: $2000-$3000
Labor: $110/hr

Throw in all the other misc parts you need and it's not hard to see how it costs $10-15k for a rebuild.

911 parts are getting increasingly expensive, and labor isn't cheap. Then there are the surprises you find along the way. In my case, I needed a new crank. Also not cheap.

Why do it to an SC as VintageRacer asked? Well, he clearly likes his SWB 911's, but I love the look of my SC. Sure, I could buy another SC for the price of the rebuild, but it's going to be another 30 year old car with 30 year old rubber. When it's all said and done I'm going to have roughly the price of a new BMW into this car. So, I could either have a new BMW or what amounts to a brand new vintage 911.
The BMW is nice, but the 911 makes me smile every time I walk in to the garage, let alone turn it on.

Spend your money however you like, I want a restored 911SC with brand new mechanicals. If I could ever find one that's been completely updated and in the color I like, it's not going to be cheap. Even then, I'd have to worry about the quality of the work that the person restoring it did. If I do it myself, I have no worries.

 

When is someone just going to post what we all want to say?

Suck it B****, that's what it cost!!!!






Not directed at the OP, just a general thought on the subject.

 

Parts cost have skyrocketed. About 7 years ago, I bought an oil pressure-fed tensioner kit for around $500. I recently noticed it was $1200 on Pelicanparts now. I wish my 401k were doing that good.

Brett

 

Yeah even the cost breakdown in Wayne's engine rebuild book is laughably cheap these days. Just over the past 3-4 months of rebuilding my engine I've seen some parts go up in price.

 

Love that garage. After reading some uninformative coments added to this post Ive come to the conclusion that someone has been breathing in either too much exhaust fumes or has been difting and sucking in tire smoke. I come to this section and others to check out awesome rides and to learn from others who share the same desire as I do when it comes to improving what we all love, not just blow smoke because they feel its needed.

 

STVracing....will have to google that and see what difting is all about.

 

Ummmm................No thanks. I cant see any real reason to spends hundreds on tires to smoke them in 5 laps.