Final word on Porsche vs. V8 vs. ricer!
08-26-2002, 03:43 AM
#16
Instructor
[quote]Originally posted by deadlyhunter:
<strong>also I do want a car with good 1/4 mile times but i wouldn't buy a car because it didn't, let me know if i'm wrong but with the use of superchargers, turbo, carbon fiber parts, or NOS couldn't i shave 1 sec off the 1/4 mile time taking it to somewhere around 13.6? maybe i'm wrong on this but I would think I could. Anyway I got nothing but love for you all lol
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can't tell from the but I'll treat this last bit as serious...
- superchargers (not much change, if any, from $5k and reliability of the engine may not be high). May hasten time to rebuild (see below)
- turbo - ditto
- carbon fibre parts - now we are talking. F'glass is enough, but "for speed, add lightness" - try <a href="http://www.gt-racing.com" target="_blank">www.gt-racing.com</a>
- NOS - as for superchargers and turbo, but cheaper and probably very short time till you destroy the engine.
Rebuilds - it doesn't pay to break a Porsche engine, as depending on what is usable afterwards, the parts and machine work alone can easily top $5000. So can the price of a replacement second-hand engine.
If you want to know what I think, if you are desperate for speed (and think you can get insurance), try to find a sound 911, sell the engine and upgrade to a bigger engine (a 3.6), selling the old. This isn't cheap either, but should get you the speed you want. Don't try NOS, a supercharger or turbo. I just don't think they will last and, if you have a budget, you don't need extra expense....
<strong>also I do want a car with good 1/4 mile times but i wouldn't buy a car because it didn't, let me know if i'm wrong but with the use of superchargers, turbo, carbon fiber parts, or NOS couldn't i shave 1 sec off the 1/4 mile time taking it to somewhere around 13.6? maybe i'm wrong on this but I would think I could. Anyway I got nothing but love for you all lol
</strong><hr></blockquote>I can't tell from the
but I'll treat this last bit as serious...- superchargers (not much change, if any, from $5k and reliability of the engine may not be high). May hasten time to rebuild (see below)
- turbo - ditto
- carbon fibre parts - now we are talking. F'glass is enough, but "for speed, add lightness" - try <a href="http://www.gt-racing.com" target="_blank">www.gt-racing.com</a>
- NOS - as for superchargers and turbo, but cheaper and probably very short time till you destroy the engine.
Rebuilds - it doesn't pay to break a Porsche engine, as depending on what is usable afterwards, the parts and machine work alone can easily top $5000. So can the price of a replacement second-hand engine.
If you want to know what I think, if you are desperate for speed (and think you can get insurance), try to find a sound 911, sell the engine and upgrade to a bigger engine (a 3.6), selling the old. This isn't cheap either, but should get you the speed you want. Don't try NOS, a supercharger or turbo. I just don't think they will last and, if you have a budget, you don't need extra expense....
08-26-2002, 04:37 AM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
Alright, I admit it I too love the 1/4 mile, although I expect to only take the P-car there for tuning purposes (test and tune night for me are like a poor mans dyno) I also promise to post my 1/4 mile times once I actually get out there and run the quarter. That said, I walked away from a buddy's 5.0 with ease tonight (we have local road marked for 1/4 mile but only do it late at night) Here's a thought that should produce a car you'll be very happy with while still allowing you much respect from the P-cars enthusiats and not break your budget. The following is basically a rundown of what myself and the PO have done to a 912.
First find an old 911 or 912 in bad shape (read cheap)
Now the fun begins
1)Locate a 3.0 engine
2)Locate a 70-71 901 gearbox with pull style clutch and short gears (7-31 I believe)
3)Get bigger brakes, I'm using S calipers
4)Replace rusted fenders with fiberglass
5)Replace rusted quarter panels with fiberglass SC flares
6)Replace front and rear bumpers with fiberglass
7)Be very minimalistic with the interior (read: no options etc.
8)Locate a pair of weber 36mm venturi 40mm throttle plate carbs and manifolds or Zeniths and convert to 36mm (I used the Zeniths and love them)
9)Locate an set of early exhaust manifolds and sport muffler (the later can be handbuilt using an off the shelf muffler and a tubing bender)
10)Install everything for the body and give it a decent paint job
11)Install the motor, use MSD ignition for it's performance as well as cost
12)Add a dash of tuning and enjoy, serves two
I'm being serious now, I've driven a lot of 1/4 mile cars and this one is definately a low 13 to high 12 second car (only the timeslips will tell) I bought my car for $5000, the PO did all the bodywork, brakes, suspension etc. I installed the 3.0 for a total cost of around $5500-6000 in effect giving me a very fast yet true Porsche for under $12,000 and while the 901 may or may not last I already have a short-geared 915 waiting in the wings. Like I said I didn't do this engine swap for drag-racing, just a little more punch than the 2.0 could provide I wound up with a lot more punch and a lot more grins plus the PO saved a P-car from the junkyard. It's not a 10 second giant killer but it is a fast car that I can drive every day as well as take to DE events etc. The car I have may be the car you want, we are both in OH (I'm in Akron) feel free to email me if you like to see it in person or even go for a ride. I'm willing to bet that saving a P-car from the crusher and turning it into a real performer will please a lot of folks around here but more importantly it will please you as the grins per mile stack up! And Joe Riceboy in his coffee can Civic will never keep up with you on a winding road
First find an old 911 or 912 in bad shape (read cheap)
Now the fun begins
1)Locate a 3.0 engine
2)Locate a 70-71 901 gearbox with pull style clutch and short gears (7-31 I believe)
3)Get bigger brakes, I'm using S calipers
4)Replace rusted fenders with fiberglass
5)Replace rusted quarter panels with fiberglass SC flares
6)Replace front and rear bumpers with fiberglass
7)Be very minimalistic with the interior (read: no options etc.
8)Locate a pair of weber 36mm venturi 40mm throttle plate carbs and manifolds or Zeniths and convert to 36mm (I used the Zeniths and love them)
9)Locate an set of early exhaust manifolds and sport muffler (the later can be handbuilt using an off the shelf muffler and a tubing bender)
10)Install everything for the body and give it a decent paint job
11)Install the motor, use MSD ignition for it's performance as well as cost
12)Add a dash of tuning and enjoy, serves two
I'm being serious now, I've driven a lot of 1/4 mile cars and this one is definately a low 13 to high 12 second car (only the timeslips will tell) I bought my car for $5000, the PO did all the bodywork, brakes, suspension etc. I installed the 3.0 for a total cost of around $5500-6000 in effect giving me a very fast yet true Porsche for under $12,000 and while the 901 may or may not last I already have a short-geared 915 waiting in the wings. Like I said I didn't do this engine swap for drag-racing, just a little more punch than the 2.0 could provide I wound up with a lot more punch and a lot more grins plus the PO saved a P-car from the junkyard. It's not a 10 second giant killer but it is a fast car that I can drive every day as well as take to DE events etc. The car I have may be the car you want, we are both in OH (I'm in Akron) feel free to email me if you like to see it in person or even go for a ride. I'm willing to bet that saving a P-car from the crusher and turning it into a real performer will please a lot of folks around here but more importantly it will please you as the grins per mile stack up! And Joe Riceboy in his coffee can Civic will never keep up with you on a winding road
08-26-2002, 04:56 AM
#19
THANKS THANKS THANKS AND AMEN!!!! lol that's the kind of info I've been looking for! now I know your the man i need to talk to lol. I live in cinci, my mom grew up in akron. anyway my email addy is deadly_hunter@hotmail.com if you want to send me your address so i could ask you more in detail about your car that would be cool.
anyway THANKS!
- I knew I kept asking about 1/4 like a nimrod for some reason lol-
anyway THANKS!
- I knew I kept asking about 1/4 like a nimrod for some reason lol-
08-26-2002, 10:54 AM
#20
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Boom,
You forgot to add locate and set aside funds for routine clutch and first and second gear replacement. For test and tune comparisons, it is probably better to find a good section of road (or Highway) and find time between two speeds; preferably two speeds that don't require shifting or dropping the clutch. Disclaimer - I am not recommending civil disobedience.
For me track preparations dollars and budget is a Zero-sum-game, only a finite amount of dollars. Others with a more unlimited budget, both money and time will gladly sacrifice either or both for the pleasure of drag racing.
Clutch replacement == $600 to $1000
transmission rebuild = $1500 to $3000
one week downtime.
What else can I do to my car with $3000?
When my region, Potomac used to run autocrosses, we generally constructed rolling starts with tight turns which negated any speed gained by dumping the clutch.
You forgot to add locate and set aside funds for routine clutch and first and second gear replacement. For test and tune comparisons, it is probably better to find a good section of road (or Highway) and find time between two speeds; preferably two speeds that don't require shifting or dropping the clutch. Disclaimer - I am not recommending civil disobedience.
For me track preparations dollars and budget is a Zero-sum-game, only a finite amount of dollars. Others with a more unlimited budget, both money and time will gladly sacrifice either or both for the pleasure of drag racing.
Clutch replacement == $600 to $1000
transmission rebuild = $1500 to $3000
one week downtime.
What else can I do to my car with $3000?
When my region, Potomac used to run autocrosses, we generally constructed rolling starts with tight turns which negated any speed gained by dumping the clutch.
08-26-2002, 10:34 PM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
rsr911@neo.rr.com
Alan,
For test and tune nights I plan on driving off the starting line like I would leaving a stop sign, fast but definately not a 6000 rpm sidestep. I'm mainly concerned with 1/4 mile MPH which is a good indicator of HP, ET has more to do with traction and driving style and is generally not as consistent as MPH. A quick start in first with hard acceleration shouldn't do much harm. You also need to remember that my car is light, much lighter than your 83SC for example so the strain on the tranny and clutch will be less. I have a drag car for drag-racing and even though I plan on going to a relatively stock engine for it next season (selling the fast one) I plan to keep using it to satisfy my 1/4 mile needs. The P-car is to satisfy my daily driver, sportscar and eventually track needs. Taking this all into account the prices you quoted for both the clutch and tranny take into account labor I presume? I do all the work on my cars outside of major machine work and wheel alignments (I don't have the tools for those). Every year over the winter I refresh the engine and trans in my drag-car so I don't see why I couldn't maintain a P-car in the same manner, but I suppose that would fall into your time and money equation. I'm not trying to detract from your comments on the matter, only trying to point out the facts of my individual case. if deadlyhunter can build the car I speak of himself he would of course be able to do all or most of the labor when things break (and they will). Much of my automotive enjoyment comes from actually building and modifying cars probably equal to the enjoyment I get from driving them.
Alan,
For test and tune nights I plan on driving off the starting line like I would leaving a stop sign, fast but definately not a 6000 rpm sidestep. I'm mainly concerned with 1/4 mile MPH which is a good indicator of HP, ET has more to do with traction and driving style and is generally not as consistent as MPH. A quick start in first with hard acceleration shouldn't do much harm. You also need to remember that my car is light, much lighter than your 83SC for example so the strain on the tranny and clutch will be less. I have a drag car for drag-racing and even though I plan on going to a relatively stock engine for it next season (selling the fast one) I plan to keep using it to satisfy my 1/4 mile needs. The P-car is to satisfy my daily driver, sportscar and eventually track needs. Taking this all into account the prices you quoted for both the clutch and tranny take into account labor I presume? I do all the work on my cars outside of major machine work and wheel alignments (I don't have the tools for those). Every year over the winter I refresh the engine and trans in my drag-car so I don't see why I couldn't maintain a P-car in the same manner, but I suppose that would fall into your time and money equation. I'm not trying to detract from your comments on the matter, only trying to point out the facts of my individual case. if deadlyhunter can build the car I speak of himself he would of course be able to do all or most of the labor when things break (and they will). Much of my automotive enjoyment comes from actually building and modifying cars probably equal to the enjoyment I get from driving them.
08-27-2002, 03:27 AM
#22
Race Car
"it seems to me IMHO that most porsche people I see on the road drive REALLY slow"
Guess some people are not aware of good old Einstein: "the faster you drive, the slower you age"...
Guess some people are not aware of good old Einstein: "the faster you drive, the slower you age"...
08-27-2002, 02:38 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
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I once had a police officer tell me he saw more driving issues with the owners of Camaros and Mustangs than he did with Porsche drivers. Want to know why? Most Porsche drivers respect and know how to use speed, and where to use it safely. People who drive around looking for races on the highway or weaving in and out of traffic are idiots and should not be on the road. If you want to drive "fast" all the time, go to a track and keep your speed off of the public streets, or at least use it wisely.
08-27-2002, 07:10 PM
#25
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Yes, this I know is true, I lived just outside of Zurich for a year and had the chance to see the German Autobahn a few times. The difference between us and them.....in Europe, the driver's skill level (on average) far surpasses those of US drivers. I would bet a significant number of people here in the states could not pass a driving test in most European countries. You just don't see people sitting in the left lane in Europe, even where there are posted limits. Here is my assessment of various European drivers:
German: Very disciplined, always in control, fast
Swiss: Conservative, always in control
Italian: Great drivers, a little risky and very impatient
French: Okay drivers, drive too fast for conditions
German: Very disciplined, always in control, fast
Swiss: Conservative, always in control
Italian: Great drivers, a little risky and very impatient
French: Okay drivers, drive too fast for conditions
08-28-2002, 05:18 AM
#26
I find myself driving slower in the 911 just because of the sheer feedback it gives on the crappy roadways we have here in WA. -
Just about any other car has more assisted steering, softer suspension and so on and it seems easier to drive lesser cars fast becuse the cars give less feedback. Doesn't make it any better, just less noticeable at speed when the roadway is wasted underneath you. There's also something to be said about respect for the car and not beating it to death on public roads. Having respect (driving carefully / correctly) for expensive machinery doesn't make you a poser, but it makes you someone who really knows and cares for their car.
In my eyes kicking the crap out of your vehicle every chance you get AKA "performance" driving on the street (see punk kid in riced out Honda burning the tires to the cords at every light) makes you just as stupid as the guy driving drunk.
rjp
Just about any other car has more assisted steering, softer suspension and so on and it seems easier to drive lesser cars fast becuse the cars give less feedback. Doesn't make it any better, just less noticeable at speed when the roadway is wasted underneath you. There's also something to be said about respect for the car and not beating it to death on public roads. Having respect (driving carefully / correctly) for expensive machinery doesn't make you a poser, but it makes you someone who really knows and cares for their car.
In my eyes kicking the crap out of your vehicle every chance you get AKA "performance" driving on the street (see punk kid in riced out Honda burning the tires to the cords at every light) makes you just as stupid as the guy driving drunk.
rjp
