1978 SC 50k miles
10-14-2011, 12:49 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Bert....thanks for the condolences.
My father had AML, the most aggressive form of Leukemia. The first DOC said you will be dead in 90 days, we went to a second DOC and he gave us choices and a glimmer of hope. 2 remissions later he tried one more round of chemo and just could not come back, the drugs made him deaf and then blind. Fortunately I had a touch language worked out with him and by squeezing his palm 6 times he would know it was me. I sent him one last 'touch' message after 5 days at the hospice and he passed.
Now, the good part. We had an airstrip at our farm in Iowa 40 years ago and my father had refurbed a bi-wing WACO, beautiful yellow with shiny chrome propeller. 15 minutes after my dad passed we went outside for some fresh air and about 500 feet (literally) off the ground a Yellow WACO with what appeared to be a chrome prop flew by and tipped its wings, nosed back up and flew into the blue sky. It was the most surreal experience of my life and I'm glad my father gave me that closure that he was safe and enjoying his next journey.
964WB or 993WB would be my first choice for a car, but I simply cannot bring myself to withstand the likely depreciation (i'm a CPA by eduction and just think like that). At least be buying a 911WB my depreciation will begin from a much lower level.
White WB's - I have also had my eye on this car shown on Pelican and liked the engine upgrade...BUT after the guy had me baited he finally told me it as salvage title....kinda pissed me off, afterall I had spent a lot of time researching the car and he tried to withhold that kind of info......BUT, as many people have mentioned here, a non-factory WB could very likely be the by-product of previously damaged vehicle. Of course I knew the car had started life as a non-cab so my radar was already bleeping.
My father had AML, the most aggressive form of Leukemia. The first DOC said you will be dead in 90 days, we went to a second DOC and he gave us choices and a glimmer of hope. 2 remissions later he tried one more round of chemo and just could not come back, the drugs made him deaf and then blind. Fortunately I had a touch language worked out with him and by squeezing his palm 6 times he would know it was me. I sent him one last 'touch' message after 5 days at the hospice and he passed.
Now, the good part. We had an airstrip at our farm in Iowa 40 years ago and my father had refurbed a bi-wing WACO, beautiful yellow with shiny chrome propeller. 15 minutes after my dad passed we went outside for some fresh air and about 500 feet (literally) off the ground a Yellow WACO with what appeared to be a chrome prop flew by and tipped its wings, nosed back up and flew into the blue sky. It was the most surreal experience of my life and I'm glad my father gave me that closure that he was safe and enjoying his next journey.
964WB or 993WB would be my first choice for a car, but I simply cannot bring myself to withstand the likely depreciation (i'm a CPA by eduction and just think like that). At least be buying a 911WB my depreciation will begin from a much lower level.
White WB's - I have also had my eye on this car shown on Pelican and liked the engine upgrade...BUT after the guy had me baited he finally told me it as salvage title....kinda pissed me off, afterall I had spent a lot of time researching the car and he tried to withhold that kind of info......BUT, as many people have mentioned here, a non-factory WB could very likely be the by-product of previously damaged vehicle. Of course I knew the car had started life as a non-cab so my radar was already bleeping.
10-14-2011, 01:28 PM
#32
Race Car
I'm touched Shannon. Didn't we look at a yellow car with "chrome" or polished wheels? I've looked at so many...
Depreciation is hard to calculate on these cars, 964 and 993 cars have arguably bottomed out already...any GOOD 911 could be a sound investment when purchased fairly.
Depreciation is hard to calculate on these cars, 964 and 993 cars have arguably bottomed out already...any GOOD 911 could be a sound investment when purchased fairly.
10-14-2011, 01:55 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Yes we did Whale.......Its a GOOD thing I have hung around here for almost 2 years now as my knowledge base has grown my tastes have evolved. I typically learn from experience, however, have given myself ample time to absorb others experience about these cars.
Thats an interesting comment about 964(5)'s and 993's.....I wonder if most people 'feel' the same ? If so, I may change my mind yet again lol
Thats an interesting comment about 964(5)'s and 993's.....I wonder if most people 'feel' the same ? If so, I may change my mind yet again lol
10-14-2011, 02:33 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Shannon it's been sometime since I've heard that acronym ,my father also passed from Acute Myeloid
Lukemia.
The first two or three physicians failed to accurately diagnose his condition,only once he was admitted
to MD Anderson Cancer Institute at the University of Texas in Houston did we really get a handle on
what was diminishing his condition so abruptly.
The people there seem to do all they can to care for many people who have no where to turn and are
there as a last resort,everything from babies to the elderly in the ICU waiting room ,it was not a pretty
scene.
I was very touched when you mentioned your surreal experience ,you have to know your father is in a
better place!
Back to the cars,I'm glad to see you've taken your time to get acquainted with the Marque and take some pointers from others experiences here there's plenty to go around.
If you plan on using this vehicle for anything near a daily or semi-daily driver I highly recommend you
consider the 964/993 chassis because they offer real world improvements and updates in creature
comfort, heat/ac ,torque,performance ,suspension etc.
I love the earlier cars have quite a few but at 53 they tend to be great for little excursions,weekend
runs etc, but I'm not nearly as young as I used to be and enjoying my trip is as important as how I get
there,just my .02 ,thanks Bert
Lukemia.
The first two or three physicians failed to accurately diagnose his condition,only once he was admitted
to MD Anderson Cancer Institute at the University of Texas in Houston did we really get a handle on
what was diminishing his condition so abruptly.
The people there seem to do all they can to care for many people who have no where to turn and are
there as a last resort,everything from babies to the elderly in the ICU waiting room ,it was not a pretty
scene.
I was very touched when you mentioned your surreal experience ,you have to know your father is in a
better place!
Back to the cars,I'm glad to see you've taken your time to get acquainted with the Marque and take some pointers from others experiences here there's plenty to go around.
If you plan on using this vehicle for anything near a daily or semi-daily driver I highly recommend you
consider the 964/993 chassis because they offer real world improvements and updates in creature
comfort, heat/ac ,torque,performance ,suspension etc.
I love the earlier cars have quite a few but at 53 they tend to be great for little excursions,weekend
runs etc, but I'm not nearly as young as I used to be and enjoying my trip is as important as how I get
there,just my .02 ,thanks Bert
10-14-2011, 03:32 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Shannon,
If you are open to looking at other options check out these cars (no affiliation):
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/2648180696.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/2642586500.html
This roller has the wheels you are looking for. See if you can nab them:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...648584986.html
Good luck.
If you are open to looking at other options check out these cars (no affiliation):
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/2648180696.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/2642586500.html
This roller has the wheels you are looking for. See if you can nab them:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...648584986.html
Good luck.
10-14-2011, 08:24 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Compression Results (Cold)
#1 - 105
#2 - 105
#3 - 110
#4 - 105
#5 - 105
#6 - 110
Elevation where test were performed is about 5k feet.
After further investigation it seems appropriate to deduct about 3% per 1k feet....if that were to hold true, the compression should be more like (85% of 140 to 150) 119 to 127.
From looking around through the search function, its seems like these numbers are quite low....like really low ? Would doing 'cold' compression make up the difference ?
Did not do leak-down yet, head studs in tact. Only things that came up were minor like driver window not working, WW not working, air pump noisy, engine was 1 qt low, minimal leaks.
PPI done by Porsche Mechanic
#1 - 105
#2 - 105
#3 - 110
#4 - 105
#5 - 105
#6 - 110
Elevation where test were performed is about 5k feet.
After further investigation it seems appropriate to deduct about 3% per 1k feet....if that were to hold true, the compression should be more like (85% of 140 to 150) 119 to 127.
From looking around through the search function, its seems like these numbers are quite low....like really low ? Would doing 'cold' compression make up the difference ?
Did not do leak-down yet, head studs in tact. Only things that came up were minor like driver window not working, WW not working, air pump noisy, engine was 1 qt low, minimal leaks.
PPI done by Porsche Mechanic
Last edited by Shannon123; 10-14-2011 at 11:42 PM.
10-15-2011, 06:18 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks Budge..
Could not sleep so more research on the compression numbers. I can't find anything that would suggest these are OK numbers. Obviously the spread between cylinders is fine. From what I've found is that a 'Cold' test will likely produce lower numbers than warm and higher altitude will produce lower compression than lower altitude....I've not found anything here on Rennlist or Pelican that would suggest 105-110 numbers are representative of a strong engine taking in consideration cold/altitude variables.....I know the next step is leakdown, but at this point I'm all ears.
Could not sleep so more research on the compression numbers. I can't find anything that would suggest these are OK numbers. Obviously the spread between cylinders is fine. From what I've found is that a 'Cold' test will likely produce lower numbers than warm and higher altitude will produce lower compression than lower altitude....I've not found anything here on Rennlist or Pelican that would suggest 105-110 numbers are representative of a strong engine taking in consideration cold/altitude variables.....I know the next step is leakdown, but at this point I'm all ears.
10-15-2011, 08:55 AM
#40
Rennlist Member
Hey there. I'm also lurking and learning as I prepare for my first 911 purchase. And I'm also "watching" that red "lightweight" model on ebay. THAT is a sweet looking car. (which, BTW, had head studs replaced at 34k miles about 10 years ago.)
You have the book so you should see that you also want to know if that is the original clutch. If so, it's not gonna last much longer.
The 3rd thing that appears to be a big ticket item in early SC's is the air box. if this one is OEM, its days are also numbered. Zimmermann's book tells you how to check if this has been upgraded with the better factory model. He's anti-popoff valve, but many seem to disagree with that one.
Finally, HOW MUCH IS THIS CAR?!!!
ok, now for my opinion on this one: PASS!
This car has had a lot of mods, including wide body (I love BTW), gauge faces, AC, looks like some sort of seat belt something (race belts?) steering wheel. My point in all this is that someone who's taken the dash apart at least twice, might be inclined and able to roll back the odometer!
The only thing that gives me hope that this car may in fact be original, is the air pump.
Oh, and I LOVE the period correct cell phone. I personally would try to get that working if possible. how cool is that!
GOOD LUCK!
You have the book so you should see that you also want to know if that is the original clutch. If so, it's not gonna last much longer.
The 3rd thing that appears to be a big ticket item in early SC's is the air box. if this one is OEM, its days are also numbered. Zimmermann's book tells you how to check if this has been upgraded with the better factory model. He's anti-popoff valve, but many seem to disagree with that one.
Finally, HOW MUCH IS THIS CAR?!!!
ok, now for my opinion on this one: PASS!
This car has had a lot of mods, including wide body (I love BTW), gauge faces, AC, looks like some sort of seat belt something (race belts?) steering wheel. My point in all this is that someone who's taken the dash apart at least twice, might be inclined and able to roll back the odometer!
The only thing that gives me hope that this car may in fact be original, is the air pump.
Oh, and I LOVE the period correct cell phone. I personally would try to get that working if possible. how cool is that!
GOOD LUCK!
10-16-2011, 09:41 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Well.....it won't be the first one I've passed on without regret. Looking back on all the possibilities I've looked at I have only one that I wish I had not passed on. Then again, the search process has refined my taste significantly.
Best regards
Best regards
10-17-2011, 12:50 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Another example of PPI cost saving one from the heartache of needing engine rebuild.
Talked to the technician who did the PPI and compression test and he said while the car was clean, it was NOT indicative of the advertised 50k milage. He also suggested an engine rebuild was likely in the not so distant future.
Sadly, I have experienced a more than my fair share of low integrity people while searching for a car....even on Pelican, I have run into many people that will 'hold out' as long as possible to tell you that the car is salvage or rebuilt.
Thanks to all for keeping me in line.....again.
Talked to the technician who did the PPI and compression test and he said while the car was clean, it was NOT indicative of the advertised 50k milage. He also suggested an engine rebuild was likely in the not so distant future.
Sadly, I have experienced a more than my fair share of low integrity people while searching for a car....even on Pelican, I have run into many people that will 'hold out' as long as possible to tell you that the car is salvage or rebuilt.
Thanks to all for keeping me in line.....again.
Last edited by Shannon123; 10-17-2011 at 01:24 PM.
10-17-2011, 02:51 PM
#43
You sound really risk averse on this issue. You might skip further PPI's for now until you find a car with complete records (maybe even records of a rebuild from a reputable rebuilder). The records (hopefully) will give you the degree of peace of mind you seem to be looking for.
I think what I'm getting at is at some point the heart has to weigh in and say, just buy the damn thing. The perfect 911 is not out there, or if it is, someone else just bought it. LOL
More good luck on the hunt,
Brett
10-17-2011, 03:10 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Not to be adversarial...but, when you get people that flat out lie to you or consciously withhold pertinent infromation, you do become much more cautious. If I had more mechanical experience then perhaps my guard would go down a bit since I would have knowledge of diagnostics etc. At this point I am at the mercy of 'professionals' and or the sellers representations. The point I was making is that I have had more than my share of mis-representation and becoming a bit anoyed with it.
On the other hand.....as you mentioned, realistically, these are OLD CARS and will continue to need more and more attention. I added 'recently rebuilt or refreshed' to my opening list of criteria for the car. Just tired of people advertising 'Pamela Anderson' and then finding out it was Rosanne Barr in disguise.
My heart did miss one car.....timing was a bit bad on it as my father became gravely ill during my initial negotiation with the guy. I wrote it off as it was not meant to be.
On the other hand.....as you mentioned, realistically, these are OLD CARS and will continue to need more and more attention. I added 'recently rebuilt or refreshed' to my opening list of criteria for the car. Just tired of people advertising 'Pamela Anderson' and then finding out it was Rosanne Barr in disguise.
My heart did miss one car.....timing was a bit bad on it as my father became gravely ill during my initial negotiation with the guy. I wrote it off as it was not meant to be.
Last edited by Shannon123; 10-17-2011 at 03:35 PM.
10-17-2011, 05:22 PM
#45
Not to be adversarial...but, when you get people that flat out lie to you or consciously withhold pertinent infromation, you do become much more cautious. If I had more mechanical experience then perhaps my guard would go down a bit since I would have knowledge of diagnostics etc. At this point I am at the mercy of 'professionals' and or the sellers representations. The point I was making is that I have had more than my share of mis-representation and becoming a bit anoyed with it.
On the other hand.....as you mentioned, realistically, these are OLD CARS and will continue to need more and more attention. I added 'recently rebuilt or refreshed' to my opening list of criteria for the car. Just tired of people advertising 'Pamela Anderson' and then finding out it was Rosanne Barr in disguise.
My heart did miss one car.....timing was a bit bad on it as my father became gravely ill during my initial negotiation with the guy. I wrote it off as it was not meant to be.
On the other hand.....as you mentioned, realistically, these are OLD CARS and will continue to need more and more attention. I added 'recently rebuilt or refreshed' to my opening list of criteria for the car. Just tired of people advertising 'Pamela Anderson' and then finding out it was Rosanne Barr in disguise.
My heart did miss one car.....timing was a bit bad on it as my father became gravely ill during my initial negotiation with the guy. I wrote it off as it was not meant to be.
Keep it up. I enjoy these hunts vicariously. Maybe searching the PCA website could put you into contact with a good, enthusiast private seller with a solid car. Unfortunately, still no guarantees, though.
Brett