1977 911T vs 1984 911 Carrera vs 2003 BMW M3
04-23-2011, 12:53 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
I thought money was somewhat of a concern.....Ferrari?? Keep the checkbook stocked, if anything breaks, it makes a 911 look really inexpensive when you're buying parts.
04-23-2011, 01:11 AM
#48
If anybody is still interested....
Gave up on the BMW M3 coupe, gave up on the 1977 911T and gave up on the 1984 911 Carrera.
The contestants are..
1. 1988 911 Targa
2. 1987 911 Coupe
3 1982 Ferrari Mondial 8
How about these? There are some price variances and maintenance costs issues I'm sure.
the fun is in the looking?
Gave up on the BMW M3 coupe, gave up on the 1977 911T and gave up on the 1984 911 Carrera.
The contestants are..
1. 1988 911 Targa
2. 1987 911 Coupe
3 1982 Ferrari Mondial 8
How about these? There are some price variances and maintenance costs issues I'm sure.
the fun is in the looking?
Should have hit me up last year.
I could have put you in a Mondial and it would have been a Quattrovalvole and a Cab for the money of a nice Carrera
Trust me you don't want one, especially an early one.
04-23-2011, 04:36 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
The Mondial is one of the 2/3 least desirable Ferraris ever built. You thought the kids in school were tough on you? Wait until you show up at an FOC gathering in a Mondial.
04-23-2011, 09:50 PM
#50
Instructor
Thread Starter
So I guess a Mondial is out. My preference was a P-car anyways but a Ferrari wouldn't be too bad. I'm looking at "4 seaters" only at this time.
The 1987-89s seems to be priced slightly higher here in Canada than the US, but taking into consideration of distance and transport, it's much the same and I would prefer a local car.
Always can wait and see. I guess that's the advantage of looking for a toy DD and not a everyday DD.
The 1987-89s seems to be priced slightly higher here in Canada than the US, but taking into consideration of distance and transport, it's much the same and I would prefer a local car.
Always can wait and see. I guess that's the advantage of looking for a toy DD and not a everyday DD.
11-10-2011, 05:09 AM
#51
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I know this thread is edging up on a year old but I have to chime in, moreso for the benefit of others searching "3.2 Carrera vs M3" in Google (how I found this, casually searching).
In the last 4 years or so I've owned and pretty much daily-driven:
* 2002 E46 M3 (coupe, 6spd, stock) - SOLD, but not forgotten
* 2002 996TT (coupe, 6spd, stage 2 GMG w K24s, etc.) - Not gonna sell for a long time
* 1993 968 (coupe, 6 spd) - CURRENTLY FOR SALE
* 1987 911 3.2 (coupe, 5 spd G50) - Current "DD"
Here are my thoughts...
First, the OP seems rather whimsical. Buying a 20+ yr old 911 is not a casual decision. These cars aren't necessarily expensive - but - it's a constant maintenance concern. If you don't love the entire essence of the air-cooled experience, you won't be committed to the required upkeep.
Annual valve adjustments, endless little crap to be adjusted/fixed - inexpensive or DIY, but necessary, really need to watch oil consumption levels, etc. It's like having a dog. You need to walk it every day, make sure it's been fed, etc. Some people thrive on this and can't imagine not having one.
For others, they don't care - and so neglect sets in. So if owning an older air-cooled Porsche (and all that comes with it) isn't your dream... you won't enjoy it.
Anyway, here's a breakdown of my current cars, in the order they were purchased - maybe you (and more realistically, others, will find this helpful.
Which type of Porsche should I buy? And how do they stack up to an E46 M3?
* E46 M3 6 Spd:
Pros: 7900 RPM Redline, Undeniably FAST (Faster than a 996NA), Idiot-Proof Handling, Modern Luxuries, a True Yet Approachable Sports Car that Really Can "Do it All"...
Cons: Stigma, Looks Like a 3-Series, Feels Hefty at Limit, Seems Like the Engine Belongs in a Sportier Chassis
One-Sentence-Summary: With one of the best NA engines of all time and incredible performance, it's one of the best deals going in the sports-car universe but is ultimately a slight compromise.
-----------
* 996TT 6 Spd, Stage 2, GT2 Turbos, etc:
Pros: Beyond Fast, Acceleration Cannot be Described, Seemingly No Handling Limits, Surgical Precision, a True Supercar
Cons: Somewhat Sterile, Need to Track it to Feel "Involved" or Feasibly Explore the Limits, Redline Arrives VERY Quickly in 1st, 2nd & 3rd, Maintenance Can Get Expensive, Understated
One-Sentence-Summary: Arguably the perfect GT... but is it too perfect?
-----------
* 968 Coupe 6spd:
Pros: Amazingly Torquey & Powerful 240HP NA 4Cyl, Perfect Neutral Handling, Very Forgiving at Limit, Easy to Drive Fast, About 75% as Fast as an E46 M3
Cons: Apparently not a "Real" Porsche, A Bit Hefty-Feeling, Exhaust Note Isn't Particularly Inspiring at Higher RPMs, Can Be Expensive to Maintain *IF* Track-Driven
One-Sentence-Summary: The final iteration of Porsche's FE sports-car era that is one hell of a car for the money these days... but just a tad underpowered compared to its FE peers on the road in 2011.
-----------
* 1987 911 3.2 G50 Cpe:
Pros: The Sound is Raw - Quintessential Porsche, Go-Kart Handling, Progressive "Crescendo" of Torque/Power as the Revs Wind Up, Totally Involving, Every Drive is an Experience, Far Less Prone to Spin Out Than You Might Think, and Truly REWARDING to Drive Well.
Cons: Comparitively Slow in Today's Sports Car World, Tall Gearing = Tight Tracks are a Challenge, Hairy at the Limit, Heater/AC are 60's Technology,
Two-Sentence-Summary: This is a car where, somehow (magically?), any of the car's slight shortcomings are simultaneously contributors to its "fun factor" - a pure 911 that drives like nothing else, and for which there truly is no substitute. This is by far the slowest sports car I've owned, and yet the feeling of nailing a corner's apex in concert with the right gear and throttle "sweet spot" in this car is indescrible and incomparable... it's simply the best.
-----------------------
So there you have it.
My 996TT has circa 550 WHP, my M3 would redline at nearly 8000 RPM and my 968 is almost 20 years old and yet the only NA 4 cyl that comes close to it in terms of power/handling - even today - is a Honda S2000...
...and yet if I had the choice of only being able to drive one car on an abandoned, winding mountain road for a full day - I'd pick the 3.2 every time.
It's not the fastest car around, nor is it very practical - and you'll reach the limits of adhesion far sooner than in, say, a 996 Turbo. But there's simply nothing else like it.
Hopefully this adds some perspective to the mix for those who stumble across this thread...
-Chris
In the last 4 years or so I've owned and pretty much daily-driven:
* 2002 E46 M3 (coupe, 6spd, stock) - SOLD, but not forgotten
* 2002 996TT (coupe, 6spd, stage 2 GMG w K24s, etc.) - Not gonna sell for a long time
* 1993 968 (coupe, 6 spd) - CURRENTLY FOR SALE
* 1987 911 3.2 (coupe, 5 spd G50) - Current "DD"
Here are my thoughts...
First, the OP seems rather whimsical. Buying a 20+ yr old 911 is not a casual decision. These cars aren't necessarily expensive - but - it's a constant maintenance concern. If you don't love the entire essence of the air-cooled experience, you won't be committed to the required upkeep.
Annual valve adjustments, endless little crap to be adjusted/fixed - inexpensive or DIY, but necessary, really need to watch oil consumption levels, etc. It's like having a dog. You need to walk it every day, make sure it's been fed, etc. Some people thrive on this and can't imagine not having one.
For others, they don't care - and so neglect sets in. So if owning an older air-cooled Porsche (and all that comes with it) isn't your dream... you won't enjoy it.
Anyway, here's a breakdown of my current cars, in the order they were purchased - maybe you (and more realistically, others, will find this helpful.
Which type of Porsche should I buy? And how do they stack up to an E46 M3?
* E46 M3 6 Spd:
Pros: 7900 RPM Redline, Undeniably FAST (Faster than a 996NA), Idiot-Proof Handling, Modern Luxuries, a True Yet Approachable Sports Car that Really Can "Do it All"...
Cons: Stigma, Looks Like a 3-Series, Feels Hefty at Limit, Seems Like the Engine Belongs in a Sportier Chassis
One-Sentence-Summary: With one of the best NA engines of all time and incredible performance, it's one of the best deals going in the sports-car universe but is ultimately a slight compromise.
-----------
* 996TT 6 Spd, Stage 2, GT2 Turbos, etc:
Pros: Beyond Fast, Acceleration Cannot be Described, Seemingly No Handling Limits, Surgical Precision, a True Supercar
Cons: Somewhat Sterile, Need to Track it to Feel "Involved" or Feasibly Explore the Limits, Redline Arrives VERY Quickly in 1st, 2nd & 3rd, Maintenance Can Get Expensive, Understated
One-Sentence-Summary: Arguably the perfect GT... but is it too perfect?
-----------
* 968 Coupe 6spd:
Pros: Amazingly Torquey & Powerful 240HP NA 4Cyl, Perfect Neutral Handling, Very Forgiving at Limit, Easy to Drive Fast, About 75% as Fast as an E46 M3
Cons: Apparently not a "Real" Porsche, A Bit Hefty-Feeling, Exhaust Note Isn't Particularly Inspiring at Higher RPMs, Can Be Expensive to Maintain *IF* Track-Driven
One-Sentence-Summary: The final iteration of Porsche's FE sports-car era that is one hell of a car for the money these days... but just a tad underpowered compared to its FE peers on the road in 2011.
-----------
* 1987 911 3.2 G50 Cpe:
Pros: The Sound is Raw - Quintessential Porsche, Go-Kart Handling, Progressive "Crescendo" of Torque/Power as the Revs Wind Up, Totally Involving, Every Drive is an Experience, Far Less Prone to Spin Out Than You Might Think, and Truly REWARDING to Drive Well.
Cons: Comparitively Slow in Today's Sports Car World, Tall Gearing = Tight Tracks are a Challenge, Hairy at the Limit, Heater/AC are 60's Technology,
Two-Sentence-Summary: This is a car where, somehow (magically?), any of the car's slight shortcomings are simultaneously contributors to its "fun factor" - a pure 911 that drives like nothing else, and for which there truly is no substitute. This is by far the slowest sports car I've owned, and yet the feeling of nailing a corner's apex in concert with the right gear and throttle "sweet spot" in this car is indescrible and incomparable... it's simply the best.
-----------------------
So there you have it.
My 996TT has circa 550 WHP, my M3 would redline at nearly 8000 RPM and my 968 is almost 20 years old and yet the only NA 4 cyl that comes close to it in terms of power/handling - even today - is a Honda S2000...
...and yet if I had the choice of only being able to drive one car on an abandoned, winding mountain road for a full day - I'd pick the 3.2 every time.
It's not the fastest car around, nor is it very practical - and you'll reach the limits of adhesion far sooner than in, say, a 996 Turbo. But there's simply nothing else like it.
Hopefully this adds some perspective to the mix for those who stumble across this thread...
-Chris
11-10-2011, 09:41 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
Sounds like OP has no idea as to what he wants.
In recent months I have had a huge hardon for the SC cars, and im currently searching fir one to use as my DD. My wife thinks im crazy, so do my friends and brother but after driving one I've been losing sleep over not having one.
Currently I have an 02tt done up, super fast, handles great but there is something missing.
I've had an e36 m3 it was a great car until stolen.
Audi I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole seeing from what my friends went through with those cars.
All in all when you know you want/need an older 911project you just go get it and deal with the issues later.
I've always loved these cars since a little kid and now a bigger kid I just want to put another one or two in my driveway.
OP think about this long and hard and go with your heart and a PPI
In recent months I have had a huge hardon for the SC cars, and im currently searching fir one to use as my DD. My wife thinks im crazy, so do my friends and brother but after driving one I've been losing sleep over not having one.
Currently I have an 02tt done up, super fast, handles great but there is something missing.
I've had an e36 m3 it was a great car until stolen.
Audi I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole seeing from what my friends went through with those cars.
All in all when you know you want/need an older 911project you just go get it and deal with the issues later.
I've always loved these cars since a little kid and now a bigger kid I just want to put another one or two in my driveway.
OP think about this long and hard and go with your heart and a PPI
11-10-2011, 09:59 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
What's the "actual" budget for this purchase, not sure if I missed it.
11-10-2011, 05:16 PM
#55
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Charleedog
I sold my 996TT two months ago (beyond fast), and after a long search, my wife and I fly to Atlanta this weekend to drive back my 1987 Carrera coupe. This is Porsche number five for me, and I agree completely with everything you said about your P cars. And feel really good about my purchase after reading your post.
I sold my 996TT two months ago (beyond fast), and after a long search, my wife and I fly to Atlanta this weekend to drive back my 1987 Carrera coupe. This is Porsche number five for me, and I agree completely with everything you said about your P cars. And feel really good about my purchase after reading your post.
11-10-2011, 05:35 PM
#56
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Charleedog
I sold my 996TT two months ago (beyond fast), and after a long search, my wife and I fly to Atlanta this weekend to drive back my 1987 Carrera coupe. This is Porsche number five for me, and I agree completely with everything you said about your P cars. And feel really good about my purchase after reading your post.
I sold my 996TT two months ago (beyond fast), and after a long search, my wife and I fly to Atlanta this weekend to drive back my 1987 Carrera coupe. This is Porsche number five for me, and I agree completely with everything you said about your P cars. And feel really good about my purchase after reading your post.
The 996TT is definitely an awesome car and one of the best deals going for high performance, no question about it, but you just can't have the fun with it on public roads like you can with an older 911.
Cheers dude
-Chris
11-10-2011, 05:55 PM
#57
Very true statement. I passed on a 996TT just because the best 911 experiences I ever had was with a aircooled 911. You want to have fun in a car,...keep the electronic gadgets out,
11-11-2011, 01:11 AM
#60
Instructor
Thread Starter
As the OP and since this thread has come back to life, I would like to update as to what my indecision has resulted.
As of May 2011 (this year), I momentarily forgot about any car when I saw and eventually purchased a 1987 911 3.2 Carrera coupe
So far I love it and drive i more than the 996 Cab. However, as my kids are growing and the back seat is limited another "itch" is coming on for a M3/M5 again. Only thing stopping is no garage space and my practical side of spending money. However, if I can figure out where to park, a 968 is not out of the question either. No thoughts have come to sell anything yet, but that's another separate problem in itself.
As of May 2011 (this year), I momentarily forgot about any car when I saw and eventually purchased a 1987 911 3.2 Carrera coupe
So far I love it and drive i more than the 996 Cab. However, as my kids are growing and the back seat is limited another "itch" is coming on for a M3/M5 again. Only thing stopping is no garage space and my practical side of spending money. However, if I can figure out where to park, a 968 is not out of the question either. No thoughts have come to sell anything yet, but that's another separate problem in itself.