whalebird

Yup. Rears were welded extensions(up until the mid 80s when they were the whole panel), and the fronts were a whole new fender. the slantnose fronts were hand shaped from original 930 stampings.

whalebird

The early turbos had a weld seam visible under the rear flare.

Makmov

I guess now that I think about I vaguely remember that,

whalebird

There are so many little details. It's one of the things that make these car a worthy pursuit.

racer

I'd prefer an M491. Not that it matters to many.. and its hard to tell in the pics, but an '84 M491 would have come with 7 and 8 inch wheels.. 9's didn't make it on till later

Shannon123

Well, no decision is a decision and thats where I remain at this point.

The guy with the M491 sent me 6 year old PICs and that makes me a bit leary of his candidness....meanwhile he is out of town until the 25th at which time I am heading up his direction anyways, and going to try and get in the car.

The '86 Carerra owner has been very very helpful and forthcoming about anything asked.

I pretty much thought the M491 would get the nod, but I guess my brain wants to give the '86 Carerra higher marks on the engine due to impecable service records and rebuilt engine and tranny not long ago......meanwhile the M491 has no service records and the guy has been a bit elusive about exactly what he has done (service wise) for the past 3 years of his ownership.....I realise a PPI can remove some concern, but from a laymans perspective, the '86 Carerra is in perfect shape and the MEAT of the car (engine) seems to have much better marks ?!

Anybody live near Tahoe or Memphis/Nashville ?

The Flying Dutchman

The '86 looks a bit weird when it comes to the wheel positions. They are definitely not as much outwards as the original '84. I believe this has something to do with the place of (at least) the front suspension. For a turbo/widebody original they are placed/faced more outwards (right)? To me the wheels of the '86 just look too much inside the body (you could probably, if you want, resolve this somewhat with spacers).

If the '84 only has old pictures, and is a piece of rust in reality ( Don't hope so for you and the 'old' owner), then I would walk from both cars in my opinion. However the '86 seems good enginewise, I would worry too much about the adaptions done. And I would only trust it if I had seen all the pictures of the building proces. I have seen some aftermarket widebodies --> rediculously bad builds. And if the wheels are not in entirely the right place (however I know more of the 964 than older 911's, but you asked for an opinion).

BTW aftermarket flares--> Steel and welded all the way for daily/no-circuit use.

dsmeyer

What asking price range are these two cars in?

The M491 option was $11390 in 1984. 355 Coupes were produced for North America that year with the Turbo Look option. Asking prices for M491 cars tend still be about $6000 to $10000 more that a similar non M491 car.

Shannon123

'86 is approx 19k range (I know thats upper level for sure on an after-market)
M491 can be had around 20k (and this seems like a pretty good price)

Mr Dutchman....I think you are probably right on the spacers...I was looking at this PIC of 930 with Boxed rockers and this pic of the '86 carerra and they could be out a bit further, but not really that much.....I think the boxed rockers give the wheel spacing a bit of an illusion, but others have also expressed concern about the adaptations made to the car. Also, the original owner if the '86 built the car for Laguna Seca non-turbo classe but then decided not to race.....is that a non-circuit race event...not sure a guy would build a car out unless he knew it would qualify ?!

The Flying Dutchman

reason why I said steel flares all the way for daily use is that these steel flares keep in the same shape as the surrounding body over time ( if welded and grinded in the right manner). Seen many many many examples of aftermarket turbo bodied examples with wrong mounted plastic flares, or after some years you can see primer through the paint (plastic ages differently than steel) or something else wrong with the flares. Next to that, if you accedently put weight on it, or someone else for some stupid reason, your flare would have a hard time staying in place.

What I meant with the suspension at the front. If you resolve optical space with spacers, you need big spacers or large (wide) tires. I am not sure if a Porsche will handle better with any of these adaptations. I am just saying, unless I saw pictures of how everything was done, and in real life how everything holds today, than only I would doubt wether I should buy it or not ( and than the price should be according too --> if a good m491 is 1k more expensive and you will just use it as a weekend car --> m491 all the way). Just sharing my thoughts, I am not saying it is a bad car. I am just saying (maybe I am a bit of a perfectionist) if a car is significantly transformed --> check everything before considering it. It could be done very well, but also very bad. And if I see the position of the wheels I start thinking ( but indeed this could be due to the photo's)

jackb911

As a M491 and a widebody conversion owner, please allow me to chime in...

Based on what have read, the '86 may be the better buy because of the engine work and "forthcomingness" of the owner.

While the '84 491 may be the better investment, consider that it has no history of engine work. The 3.2 Carreras have two potentially very expensive issues that apparently have not been addressed in the '84 - head stud breakage and worn valve guides.

While there are lots of Carreras that have high mileage and have not experienced these problems, there are many others that have. My '87 has 118,000 miles and had the valve guides replaced at 112K and the head studs at 117K, the latter due to a broken one that was discovered when I was doing a valve adjustment. Had I known what I know now, I would have had the head studs replaced when the valve guides were done since the heads were already off.

Whichever car you choose, I'll echo the advice that has already been given to have a THOROUGH PPI done, to include pulling the lower valve covers, checking for broken head studs.

There is nothing wrong with a wide body conversion if it was done properly although in equal condition a 491 is obviously worth more. Mine has steel 930 front fenders and steel 930 rear flares and it is a total blast to drive. I bought this one as a totally stock Carrera 10 years ago, later sold it to my brother and recently repurchased it. Between the two of us we have over $50K in the car which is way more than I paid for my low mile M491 cab. Here's a pic.

whalebird

Holy smokes Jack. Thats a beautiful tribute car.

Brucechas

That it is.

jackb911

Thanks for the kind words, guys. We took a bit of flak on that "other" Porsche forum for cutting up a really nice G50 car. Here's a 'before' and a 'during' pic. My brother did all the grunt work except for welding the rear 930 flares which was done at a local Porsche resto shop and I shot the paint. It took us over seven months, working almost every day. As with any big project, there was a lot of "Well, while we're in there..." The A/C and console were deleted along with a ton of detail stuff that was done. It did turn out very nicely and I'm ecstatic to have it back in the garage. It is my favorite of the 21 Porsches I've had since 1972.

Shannon, I apologize for hijacking your thread!