AGW911

What were the differences in the engines in 72 between the E, T and S models? I have read lots that the S is very collectible because of its rarity, but is the T collectible as well?

I'm looking at a T that has been "modernized". I was thinking it would be a good winter project to take it back to original. I am attracted to the 72 because it is the year I was born. The following will be required to put it back to original:

- Replace front fenders (currently fibreglass) to original
- Replace front (don't know the word for the piece) where the hood latches
- Replace hood for long hood
- Remove fibreglass molding on back that was used to make SC flares (hoping no metal has been cut, that might be a deal breaker
- change front and rear bumper back to 72

If I go this route, since I need a winter project, I would rebuild the engine, tear down the car completely to the tub for a repaint since it is not the original colour and then repair/replace anything that needs it. The interior is in good condition and is still original 72, so the changes back to original would be mostly cosmetic.

Still looking for a later model driver, but this project can be had for probably less than 5K. I am budgeting another 5K+ for the work I want to do. I know it will be tight, but I think if I shop around and find some good deals it can be done. I'm factoring in that all labour with the exception of paint will be mine, so I can cut that cost out of the equation. I also have some contacts for paint that will bring the price down.

Back to the original question about the engine, got a little off track, is there anything I can do to the original T that will give it the power of an S? By that I mean, was the increase performance internal, or are there was too many things to change?

ked

this type is a project-too-far for a first-timer on a $10k budget, unless you want to get 911 ownership out of your system in one fell swoop. keep thinking decent SC or early Carrera. if you've got to have a '72 Porsche on the cheap, look at 914s.

Ed Hughes

My guess is that the only way you could take advantage of added-on Carrera flares would be to cut the old metal. Lots you can do with injection choices, carbs and cams, and you can get more involved with displacement and compression too. I'd also doubt you'd get out of a project like this for only $10K.

Stick with your original plan.

AGW911

The original plan still stands. SC or Carrera, driveable, but in need of some minor work. This one is a project for the winter. I know the budget seems tight, but I am going for a driver not a concourse job. Still attention to detail is very important, just not planning on winning any trophies with it.

Ed, thanks for the engine suggestions. Do you know if the performances differences were all internal on the 72? The carbs on the original engine that I am looking at are the Zenith, was this updated on the S model. Still waiting for more books, maybe they will have the answers.

Ed Hughes

I'm not well versed enough on the older engines. If Steve W comes onto this thread, he can probably recite every possible engine configuration. There are seemingly endless examples of "tweaked" engines.

Another place to inquire is the Pelican engine forum. Steve and others frequent there.

joe 997

Canada and you haven't mentioned rust. Hard too believe a 72 doesn't have issues. have it checked out by someone who knows long hoods. The engine is a major project but you can get it up to S power buy I doubout if it would be worth it. The long hood

ked

in '72, the primary distinction among the T, E & S 2.4L motors was the valve timing, cams & compression ratios. US T's had mechanical FI, carbs for ROW.

Wayne of Pelican has How to Rebuild & Modify Your Porsche 911 Engine, Bruce Anderson has a great overview in Porsche 911 Perf Handbook, & Frere's Porsche 911 Story is a must-read to appreciate overall 911 evolution from the factory pov.

I think you'll be at high risk of going way over budget unbastardizing a 38 yr old 911T (is the drivetrain fine? chassis? susp & brakes?). Half-assed & lots of luck you'll be in for well over $5k... done right, more like $10-20k. there just isn't much point in not doing a long-hood properly, & there's a reason nice ones are well over $20k.

Here are a coupla nice ones... '73S & '71T...

AGW911

The only rust mentioned was in the front suspension pan. I have to look at this one when I am home next month. It is probably going to be a pass, but I think it is worth a look. I am assuming if it has Zenith carbs it's either a ROW, or someone changed them. Don't know the VIN, so can't verify at this time. Has the oil filler door, so it "looks" like a 72 so far.

Joe997 - no shortage of issues with this car. I haven't actually looked at it yet to see what it needs. Just a thought right now.

ked - just cleaning the drool off my keyboard, there that's better, very nice cars. Are they yours?

ked

I wish! - a good friend is a collector. The T is just sold, a survivor (no rust / no accidents) that's only had a repaint & an engine rebuild... always garaged... probably a mid-$30s car. The S is completely restored, built 2.5 motor (just screams)... a "6-figures" example, as they say... A '72 E should show up soon... we should a comparison test!
here's another friend's E, now residing in SoCal...

race911

Having just unloaded a '73 1/2 T yesterday that was ALL THERE and RUST FREE, I was still looking at $7-10K to bring it back to wash-and-shine specs. Engine wouldn't have needed more than a re-sealing; it was all cosmetic + doing the trans and a clutch. No way, no how does what you've described fall under a $10K totally in figure.

AGW911

Damn!!! I'm still set on a late model for later this year, but I am definitely sold on a restoration project as well. Just have to find the right one. Welding, mechanical and machining I have covered in my shop. Paint will have to be outsourced. I am sure if I am "frugal" and wait for the good deals to come along I can do it with a modest investment. As a matter of fact, not to try to prove anyone wrong, but rather to make it an interesting (and hopefully successful) story, I will make it into a blog to follow the progress. Now, just have to find the right candidate.

My dad has been restoring old cars for quite a while now, so I am aware of the potential pitfalls. He was mostly into MG (A and B), but is now working on a 27 Reo Wolverine. For all of the cautions I have received on here, it has come tenfold from him!! Fortunately not discouragement, just caution.

AGW911

Do you do all of your own work? Did you source used parts or buy all new?

Not questioning whether your comments are accurate, just trying to compare the situations and decide if I am out to lunch.

race911

I've been working on 911's for nearly 30 years since I was 18. I've owned two shops. I entered the business as 356's were at the stage early 911's now are, and have pretty much lived the full circle of hacked/chopped/obscenely altered torsion bar 911's. There aren't many unmolested cars left; those that are decent are now pretty expensive. Those that aren't will take, in parts alone, what a decent car costs to just buy outright.

Case in point, I still have the car I found for my cousin to do 20 years ago as his first conversion of a '73 RS. (He's gone on to build a 910 from scratch, and is working on 2 907K's.) Chassis is 100% rust free, now with tired paint. To bring it back with any of the 2.7RS/3.0/3.2/3.6 engines I have laying around, with a proper 915 transmission and the good suspension/930 brake package/8&9" Fuchs will mean I have about $25K in the car. And that's picking up everything for next to nothing.

AGW911

Thanks. Now that's a reality check. I'm not discouraged, but definitely better informed. I am definitely going to do a 72 next winter, just have to find the right one. It will probably be a keeper, so if I have to go over budget that will be fine. Depends what I put into my "driver". Whatever is left will be used for the project.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

JMHO, but I think you'll need to double your budget, at the very least.

Ken is spot-on; these are not inexpensive cars to restore and repair (even if you get cheap/free parts) unless one accepts a half-baked result at the end of the process and honestly, that undermines the value toward any chance of cost recovery.