david benett

Hi everyone,
I have an 88 carrera that i am trying to keep happy on a limited budget. i am a law student and i have been doing my own maintenance on the car during the year. i currently have a summer job and can finally address the engine, which at 173K and untouched, is starting to burn oil at a more alarming rate. I have spoken to a few mechanics in the SF bay area and there seems to be three schools of thought: 1) do a top end 2) rebuild the whole engine 3) swap in a rebuilt or low miles 3.2 and sell the core.

my gut feeling is that option #1 is not a good idea because of the infamous 3.2 rod bearings. I would think that if i was to do the top at 173K I would have to do the bottom as well. this brings us to option #2 which seems cost prohibitive. i don't think that I can swing up to $10K for a stock 3.2 rebuild. does anyone know of engine rebuilders in the san francisco area that they or others that they know have had positive experiences with. the numbers are all over the board on this one so any degree of certainty of what i should expect to pay would be appreciated.

barring a more reasonable number for a R&R of the original engine, i'm currently leaning toward option #3 and I have a few questions: are there any issues from using a earlier 3.2 (i.e. pre 87) in a newer car? would you recommend any places for finding a recently rebuilt 3.2? are there any disadvantages to buying a euro motor from harald or another supplier and bolting it in (my uneducated thoughts would be that smog would be an issue plus the exchange rate is pretty unfriendly right now)? what would you expect to pay for a 3.2 (i was recently quoted $5500 for an 80K mile engine with good compression and leakdown)?

thanks for all help and leads.

the broke law student,
david benett

ZCAT3

David - I saw your post over on Pelican and you are getting some good advice there. I remember referring you to Don Wise at CT Auto last year about this. If the car is still using less than 1 quart per 300 miles and is still driving good, perhaps you can sell it and get a more appropriate track car. Take a look at the recent PCA Nugget. There is an ad in there for an 82 SC with a 3.2 from an 87-89 car and a bunch of nice sounding suspension mods. I think the asking price is around $10K. If that car is sound, perhaps you could sell you car and buy that car and still have some money left to eat and buy gas. An SC with a 3.2 and a sorted suspension should be a blast on the track.

I do not see any cheap way for you to get your current 88 where you want it to be without spending quite a bit of money.

Bill Gregory

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>my gut feeling is that option #1 is not a good idea because of the infamous 3.2 rod bearings. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">David,

Hmmm, first I've heard of the infamous 3.2 rod bearings being a particular problem. The connecting rod bolts, which were reduced on the 84+ engines, are something you may want to replace, especially if you'll see any track time or run at high revs for any period of time.

The issue with installing a used engine is unless you know where it came from, you may be buying someone elses problem. I've seen where people have bought crap rebuilds, too.

It kind of comes down to how long you expect to keep your 911. I'd be inclined to rebuild your current engine, as you then have a known quantity (assuming a quality rebuild). If you did decide to look for another engine, I'd consider dropping in a 3.6L (which aren't entirely trouble free, either...do your research). Depending on the condition of you 911, Bill also had a good suggestion to consider, which is shine up what you have, and sell it to buy another 911.

Ed Bighi

The rod bolt issue is a little overplayed. Some friends of mine have been running stock 3.2's on the track for years with no problems. And these guys, like myself, are the types who think the oil temperature gauge is merely a suggestive device. And when I say years, I don't mean a couple. I mean closer to a decade. For you to see problems, you first have to be chipped. Then you have to abuse it. Really abuse it. I am very familiar with the act of abuse. I know it quite well, and could give instructions on the act. Truth be told, I see more non-911's blow motors or spin rod bearings then I do 3.2's breaking rod bolts. I actually haven't seen one do it yet. Though I did see a friend break a rod on a 2 liter flat six a couple of years ago. Also, don't forget that the 74.4 crankshaft and rods of the Carrera 3.2 are the same as the ones in the 930 turbos. There are much higher stresses in those. And they still use the same rod bolts. Now if I were faced with a true need for an entire rebuild, then yes I would put in something stronger. But on the other hand, if you were in a situation somewhat like mine, then just do the top end. My 88 with just over 100K has broken head studs. I'm going to do a top end job. Since my mechanic is very well off, if I were to tell him to do the whole thing at 100K, he would think I am nuts. It's just not necessary. I would like to add that I found a 3.2 motor locally for a good price. But it's not going in. The numbers will not match and used motors can go south. And while that is not a real big issue in an older car, for me at least it is in a G50 car. And mine is a particularly nice car with no other issues. So I will keep the original motor. It might be worthwhile to just do the top. Just don't put in dilavar studs. Every other stud is good. Actually, dilavars are discontinued now. They were replaced by the 993 studs. In my opinion, those are good since I don't see 993's with broken studs all over town. SC's were breaking them in the same time that 993's have been around for now. And try to keep it under $5. I gave my machanic four thousand in cash ahead of time and told him that is all he will ever see. If I need any more parts like a head, I'll get them on my own. While I can't guarantee that you will never break a rod bolt, I also cannot guarantee that a comet won't fall on you car. In the end, it's up to you how overly precautious you want to be. The only issue here is that you have 173K. But then again, 173 is not a whole lot as far as a 3.0 or 3.2. My SC has 220, and while I considered rebuilding it a couple of years ago into a 3.4, it is putting out too much power right now to justify a rebuild. As far as your mileage, even though it might seem like a lot, your 173 cannot be like my 220. That's because my 220 includes ten years of autocrossing, another 8 years of track and stupid things like driving in fifth with engine at just under 6K for hours at times. Of course, the rod bolts are bigger in my SC, but our pistons and everthing else other than injection are very close. And rod bolts are only affected cumulatively by running over the factory set rev limit. Remember, 930's run the same bolts. So you have to be the judge. If I had your car and decided to rebuild entirely, I would go with 98mm pistons for a 3.4, since that would give me a better excuse to do it. If not, then just the top would do.

NeverLift

I agree, Rod bolts are not an issue with 3.2L, its exhaust valve guides. I have an 86 Carrera with 140K on it. My mechanic wanted me to put more miles before I do a top end! My car burned oil(600 miles to Qt) and smoked a bit at start up sometimes. I'm doing a top end as I type. Mainly as an excuse to make more power. I pick up my cams from Elgin today (C2 spec). If your gonna do a full on rebuild then yes replace and upgrade parts. From what I know and have been told you just need a top end. Your 3.2L should put on mileage like a 3.0L 300K no problem. I'll post about my top end in a week or two.

Ed Bighi

My top end job is just started also. Nothing unexpected. It is a textbook broken head stud. Only one. My buddy removed it easily. Funny things found though. Even with the relatively low mileage, we found phosphorous bronze guides, which means they were redone at some point. Those looked fresh, but phosphorous bronze lasts a hell of a long time. But everything else is as expected. Heads and barrel tops looked great and just required cleaning. This is even after breaking the stud in Texas while on the way home to Phoenix from Miami. I just took it easy on acceleration rates, even though I kept the car at close to and over 100mph for the rest of the trip. Considering the motor had been opened up before for either a stud or valve guides, one thing is certain, dilavar sucks. I am amazed the dilavars in my SC which went in in 93 are still good after not only all the years, but also the track punishment. Maybe the bad batch theory is sound. But one thing is certain, avoid them. Dealerships don't sell them any more, but they are probably still around. I am putting in 993 steel studs on the bottom row since they have been doing fine in 993 turbos. I think I will leave the steel top row alone since they should hold.

My sister's 3.2 has valve guides which are getting tired also. Though it isn't too bad as far as consumtion. We are going to wait a bit since she barely puts in miles and from previous experience, they give plenty of warning of when things are getting really bad. You can hear them if not see the ridiculous oil burning. Right now she does not burn much. Oil smoke at startup I even get sometimes in my SC with perfect guides. When it becomes time, it will only be a top end job since I know how long the bottom lasts.

NeverLift

Dropped off the cams at the shop and got a look at my engine. Everything looked great cylinder walls were awesome and the rocker arms still looked great. One cylinder wasn't happy though. The exhaust valve guide was bad and was letting some oil into the cylinder. We are checking the rings but think its ok. Other than that the engine was in very good shape. These engines are tuff! Once the top end is done I plan on driving hard for many years. Will post more on top end rebuild soon.

Ed Bighi

Neverlift, mine is all together minus the injection now. All done since the valve guides were replaced with phosphorous bronze at some time in the past. I did not have to spend a penny over four thousand. Considering the speed at which my buddy is doing it, I am a happy camper. Since he not only does a lot of motors, but basically took his Porsche shop over from his old man, who himself did a lot of motors, I asked him a question on rod bolts. I asked him if my rod bolt theory is close to the truth. He said he can not remember the last time he did a 3.2 because it threw a rod bolt. Or if he ever did one for that reason at all. He agrees with me that the issue is overblown. He said it isn't even close to the 2.7 crankcase thread and warping issue. He said the same thing I said, which is the fact that 930's run those rod bolts. And no 930 is stock. This is a good example of how **** society is becoming in general when they heighten little issues to massive proportions. Kind of like how we Americans think every little thing we do or eat will kill us outright. While Europeans eat whatever they want, and get to live longer while laughing at our futile antics. Oh well. When I get the car out of the shop, I will drive it just like I drive my SC. Hard, while knowing full well that my rod bolts will not break. And if they do, I should feel lucky since I would be one of the few. At least in my state.
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