floete

At the risk of wearing out my welcome -- hey, at least I'm including pictures!!!! -- what do my betters think of this 84 Carrera I found, for $12k, with 178k miles on the odo? The owner seems like he's a thorough and knowledgeable fellow. What do you think? Worth pursuing? And, if so, what additional questions would you ask during a follow up call? I've *bolded* the stated issues, including the probable need for some valve work; any idea how much that might cost? (BTW -- I love the color of this car; not silver for a change!!!) Thanks!

The owner writes:

Today was the first time the car was started and driven since late November. The car started easily and came to a smooth idle after a minute, no smoke. Driving it back to the house it drove very well, smooth clutch release etc. Putting the car in first gear was a little difficult until I almost came to a stop, a small blip of the throttle helped. Temperature here is in the low thirty's and the way the car shifts feels exactly like a 915 gearbox should. I did note that there was a puddle of oil under the car and it appears to have come from a cam cover or maybe a oil return tube. I will put it on the lift this weekend for closer inspection.

The car is 1984 Carrera blue exterior with tan leather interior. Options on the car are sport seats, factory limited slip dif., sunroof, front rubber spoiler and rear tail. I also have added 7' and 8" by 16" Fuchs (the annodizing is in very good original condition with no gouges or scrapes). The car is in original condition and has matching numbers. I have changed the oil at least every 3000 miles using Castrol GTX 20/50 and a factory filter. The only modification I know of to the car is that it has been lowered.

I have owned the Carrera since March of '04. A complete PM had been done a couple of weeks earlier including valve adjust. Upon further inspection it was found that a spray tube had appeared to rotate and was not spraying on the cam. I bought the car and had the repairs made which included a new cam, rocker arms, rocker shafts and a spray tube. While the engine was out of the car a new clutch disc, pressure plate and throw out bearing were installed. The car had 169487 miles at that point.

Parts I have replaced since I have owned it are window lift switches, turn signal switch, front brake calipers, misc interior trim pieces including visors, Momo shift **** , Momo leather shift boot, Nardi steering wheel (original is available), drive belts, idle control valve, front windshield, light switch / dimmer, front hood struts, engine sound pad, cooling fan shroud, billet aluminum door handles and
tires. I have added a set of Renn Line pedal covers to help my wife who drives our race car to get use to heel and toe down shifting.

The records I have date back to 1988. Other items replaced were the alternator, rear torsion bars, sun roof cable, assorted trim pieces etc. The previous owner replaced the shocks all around (Bilstein) and replaced most of the
rubber suspension bushings including the rear inner and outer torsion bar bushings on the swing plate.

The car runs well and does not burn oil. Typical oil consumption is less than a quart every thousand miles. The car starts easily and comes to an idle. The transmission shifts easily and there is no grinding on up shifts or down shifts. I do not know if the trans has ever been reworked. The engine though strong has excessive valve noise which is expected considering the miles and that the valves have not been done to my knowledge. New valve guides and rebuilding the heads would be first on your to do list though the car drives well the way it is.

The car is clean with stone chip wear on the front hood valance. A rust area on the passenger side lock / door jamb was cut out and repaired. Other than that repair I do not know of any other rust. The car has been stored indoors
since I Have owned. On the passenger side rear quarter panel there is a small crease from where a jack handle popped up and hit the body which can probably be repaired without paint. The tail has a small crack in the fiberglass by
one of the louvered air intakes. There are some scratches on the passenger door. For a 26 year old car the overall condition is very good.

Amber Gramps

I'd blame first gear on the ambient temp. Way to cold for oil to flow.

Why the white 7's and 8's? strange...

Rick K

You'll need to figure out whether or not to spend the money on a PPI or just walk.

I like the stance of the car - do you know if the suspension has been refreshed at all (shocks, struts, bushings, torsion bars, sways, etc)?

You can easily have the white wheels painted to black for a few hundred bucks (or do it yourself) if the white doesn't float your boat, that wouldn't concern me as much. Tranny also might not concern me as long as it shifts smoothly on the go - others will chime in here.

It might be worthwhile to chat with the owner about flexibility on pricing depending on what a PPI might find. If you were to receive questionable leakdown results (e.g. lots of variation in #'s or findings above 10-15%), which would mean a rebuild of some sorts would be in your near future, what would the owner be willing to part with the car for? If they aren't very flexible, then walk.

Just to play it out, let's say you get questionable results on the engine test, if you negotiated to 10K, then had to sink ~10K into an engine rebuild at least, then you have a 20K car with close to 200K on the clock (w/ a potentially suspect gearbox and who knows what condition suspension). Is that worth it to you?

Trader220

First gear is probably a synchro which would be expected at those miles. Skeptical about his estimate of oil consumption especially considering the sound of the valves. Probably a top end job in the future to do those valve guides. PPI worth it.

floete

Good stuff, guys.

Rick: I guess if I got questionable results on a leakdown test, I'd walk away rather than negotiate down and have to sooner rather than later maybe pony up another 10k.

Trader220: Could you offer a guess at what a top end valve job might cost? And, from the sound of it, and even from what the owner says, that kind of work seems like it's going to be necessary.

And with high miles and a suspect gearbox, maybe I should push on early and continue my wee journey...

Trader220

You can run the gambit there. As people will tell you there are 5 k top ends and there are 15k top ends. Find a shop you're comfortable with and get a couple of quotes.

logan2z

I've spoken to several shops in my area, and the going rate for a top-end rebuild seems to be in the $8K-$10K region. That's typically more than just the valves, however. It usually includes rings, regrinding the cams, etc. Carreras do seem to be prone to valve guide wear, so I would expect that a valve job would be necessary sooner or later on any higher mileage 84-89 911. If possible, budget at least some of the cost of a rebuild into your purchase price.

logan2z

These statements are contradictory. If it's consuming about a quart every thousand miles, then it's 'burning' oil. As others have said, I'd be suspect of the stated oil consumption for a Carrera of this mileage. Unfortunately, you don't have much choice other than to take the owner's word for it, but a PPI with compression/leakdown tests will give you some sense of the health of the engine. You can also get the mechanic to remove the valve covers and wiggle the valves to see how much play there is in the guides.

The fact is that many Carreras wear guides and use oil, and a top-end rebuild could be necessary at some point. In general, if the car isn't smoking (other than perhaps a puff at startup) and compression/leakdown look pretty good, then I'd try and negotiate a purchase price that takes the cost of a top-end rebuild somewhat into account (you aren't going to get $10K off the price of a $12K car because it might need a top end ) and enjoy the car until the work is truly needed. Once you do have the engine work done, you'll have an awesome $20K car that'll run for another 100K miles or more.

Rick K

If I'm not mistaken, the '84 Carreras used a similar valve guide material as the SC's which were considered to be stronger/last longer - so not sure that the "Premature Guide Wear" that sometimes gets attributed to '85-'89 Carreras would necessarily apply here. Again, if I'm not mistaken.

logan2z

Hmm, I thought that the 84-89 Carreras used the same valve guide material, but I'm no expert and could be wrong.

ron mcatee

There are a lot of really nice 911's out there. Just be patient and keep looking. Pay more a good one, well maintained and you'll be much happier even though it may cost more initially. Just my $.02 worth after owning 19 Porsches over 42 years.

87turbo87

+1

Based on the write-up and probable items that will need to be addressed in the next year $12k seems a bit high. While a compression and if needed leak-down test will tell you some it won't tell you any real bottom end issues that might emerge with a higher milage car. So...regardless of compression test you still should assume you will need some major work over the next 30-50k miles....

good luck....

floete

Okay, okay, okay, I'm going to drop this one. Too many question marks. 'Nuf said. Thanks!

rusnak

Yeah, the 1rst gear synchro could be weak. Some fresh gear could not hurt. The oil consumption might not be too far off what he says. Sport seats are a +. The car is just dirty though. I wonder why he didn't clean it?

The common type of oil leak would be return tube or the triangle of death. Those are a cinch to fix.

If those are original Fuchs, then I'd try a lowball offer, maybe 10-11K. If he goes below 12K, then you ought to think about it, and focus on the valve noise. Maybe pay for a leakdown test.

floete

Like I said, I'm going to pass. But if someone else here is interested, I'd be happy to pass on the contact info. PM me. The car is located in Herndon, VA -- not too far from Rick K! According to the ad I saw, it's a divorce sale ...
Oh, and the reason it's so dirty is, he just took it out of winter storage to snap the pix and didn't have time to get it gussied up, what with more inclement weather on the way ...