theiceman

..until your engine grenaded form your failed IMS maybe ..

whalebird

There were a bunch of people in '86 who said their Carrera would blow the doors off a '73S. Just not true. The 997 C2S is a bad little monster, but a Vette will blow its doors off, so will a garden variety Viper. The comparison of a 997C4/2S and a 993 varient is not all about the numbers...there is a huge divide in driver satisfaction. My grandma can make a 997 go fast. In 20 years you'll never see the investment return on a 997 either.

TRINITONY

aged > youth..
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...fat-asses.html

Edward

This whole thread is subjective ...I seriously doubt anyone was drawing any definitive conclusions based on empirical data. So you are certainly entitled to your opinion ...and so are those who feel the contrary. How you define "whole package" clearly differs from those who desire the history, nostagia, and original lines of the first 911s. And that's fine, define away, but don't be surprised if others do the same.

Your average Joe is obviously different from the Joes I encounter, but yes, clearly and unequivocally, my lowly little 95 has consistently been mistaken for a "new" Porsche: this since I bought it in '00, this despite my NA "narrow body," and this even as recent as a few months ago in a mall parking lot.

I've never been parked next to a 997, but if I or any clean 993 were, I have zero doubt that the "average Joe" who has a pulse would mistake both as "new 'sports' cars." Even the nearly-completely non-car enthusiast would recognize both as Porsches. Further, I would speculate that if both were not sitting next to one another, more would (arguably) recognize that miserably outdated 993 a Porsche, and not be quite certain what that other car was. This is no aspersion to the 997, a car that is clearly an advanced, impressive car that is all Porsche. But these cars are unmistakably different. Maybe not "worlds apart," but significantly different, from their very design down to the execution. And yes, all IMHO.


Edward

Quadcammer

The fact that we are even comparing a car created in 1995 with one in 2005 means that Porsche did a hell of a job on the 993.

The 997 C2s is a great car, but its very cookie cutter.

Not to mention, if all I cared about were performance, I wouldn't buy a C2s. I'd buy a Z06 and make that C2s look like a beetle.

911Dave

Nothing to disagree with there. I guess I should have said "a little faster" instead. I had no idea the phrase "blow the doors off" would ruffle so many feathers!

By the way, to everyone, I don't want to leave you with the impression that I prefer the 997 over all the other previous models - I don't. That's why I sold mine 2 days ago. I much prefer my 3.2 Carrera and am looking for a pre-'74 car now. My comments are strictly regarding the comparison of a 933 vs. 997 from a "whole package" perspective.

911Dave

Why do you say "lowly little 95"? I don't think anyone implied it should be considered that. I like the 993 very much (though not as much as the earlier cars).

An older lady looked over my '86 928 once, and thought it was a new Porsche. I'm sure anybody not familiar with Porsches might mistake a 993 for a new one. Most people don't have a clue. But....park your 993 next to a 997 and ask Joe which one is newer, and he'll most certainly point to the 997. It clearly looks newer. The previous poster claimed Joe wouldn't know. Let's be serious.

911Dave

That problem plagued a small number of M96 engines. It's almost unheard of on an M97.

Quadcammer

Although the true number is unknown, I think classifying it as affecting a "small number" is greatly understating the issue.

2qwik4u

911dave,

In my original post I actually didnt compare the 993 to any other 911 model, I just said the c4s of the 993 body was the ultimate 911.
As far a avg. joe knowing the difference between the 2, maybe if it were a regular 993 NB.
But a mint condition 993 c4s and a 997 c4s side by side I really dont think they'd know the difference, and probably choose the the 993...IMHO.

Just look at the above photo...

I know we are beating a dead horse here, buts its all good fun

DesignerGenes

Well, I'd say there are several "ultimate" 911s; but then, I'm not an absolute stickler for the air-cooled definition being the only one possible.

IF we stick to air-cooled and factory (We'll be here until hell freezes, or thaws, if we allow "modifications" into the argument.), I'll nominate the all-wheel drive 1997 993 Turbo S as ultimate 911. 424 HP and 400 lb-ft torque in a package just under 3,500 pounds, hitting 0 to 60 in 3.7 to 3.9 seconds (variously reported).

Go with wet 911s and the current, 2008 997, rear-drive GT2 comes right to mind with 530 HP out of the same size -- 3.6 littre -- engine, and weighing in at a measly ~3,200 pounds.

My all-wheel drive 2005 Turbo S is no slouch with the same HP as the legendary 959 (444), and more torque (457 lb-ft vs 396 for the 959). Mine would be quicker (0 to 60 in 4.2 seconds), but the fancies make it weight 3,505 pounds.

ToddMcF2002

Funny I drove a 98 C4S about an hour after driving a 930. I found the 993 underwhelming. The Varioram was pretty neat but for all that noise there was little drama. Above all I immediately missed the 930 steering.

jwasbury

+1

I was very excited to drive my buddy's 993 turbo after reading 993 love-fest threads like this. Nice car? You bet. Fast as hell? Yup. But I don't think they have the rawness and purity of the earlier cars. I'd prefer an SC or a 3.2 (or my '79 930) for a weekend toy thanks very much.

Honestly, my impression is that the the 993 feels more like a 996 or 997 than an SC or 3.2 carrera. Therefore, if I wanted something with A/C and creature comforts, I'd skip the 993 and go straight to a 997. Preferably one with a warranty that I can leave at the dealer when something goes wrong.

theiceman

Dave I am just teasing ya of course ... when did the m97 engine start ? with the 997 car I would assume ? i have never actually tracked that but I am SURE they would have beefed it up considerably.

autobonrun

I've owned an SC for 26 years and also have a C4S. I frequently drive both the same day. I've also driven 996's. The 993 is nothing like a 996. I'm not saying that in a negative manner but everything from the sounds to the dash layout reminds you of past 911s. Drive a SC then get in a 993 and the best term I can use to describe it is familiar. It's a more comfortable SC or Carrera with more power. The power assisted steering is noticable at slow speeds but at higher speeds, the C4S steering is just a communicative as my SC; it just does it in a different manner and feels different, not as stiff. I'm consistently able to post better autocross times with the 993, partially due to the AWD and partially to the increased torque. Even though it weighs more, it doesn't feel heavy. The SC is raw, you get the sounds, the smell of oil in the passenger compartment, and a feeling that it's going faster than it is. I think you have to be a better driver to wring the most out of an SC where a C4S will make a lesser driver look better and will get you out of situations with less drama.

On the other hand, the 996 feels more revolutionary than evolutionary. I'm not saying that in a negative manner; it's just my opinion of the differences. Even the engine sounds are different with the water cooled engine. Full throttle in the SC feels like all hell is breaking loose; same with 993 but just not as raucous.
I'm sure there are 911's that do various things better (speed, acceleration, braking, even handling); but few look as good doing it than a widebody 993. I'm not saying this because I own one; I own one because I can say this. I wouldn't even try to compare straight line speed of a 993 with a 997 any more than I'd compare it's 282 HP to my 400 HP M5. I will say because of their weight, both the SC and the 993 hold their own, but reduced weight only goes so far; at some point torque and HP take over.

SC and C4S just before a quick jaunt on some curvy roads