floete

Thanks, Ed, I appreciate your insights. Very helpful indeed to this new guy swimming about in P-land.

Brett San Diego

Don't forget your comment about the transmission. You seemed to say, or your buddy seemed to say that he liked the transmission. Assuming he has experience in these things, a good shifting 915 is like having money in the bank. A 915 rebuild drains the accounts pretty quickly. You'll have to drive others to compare, though, so you can really get a good feel for what this particularly 911s 915 is like.

Brett

autobonrun

I agree with you 100%. I know the most popular fix for the mechanical tensioners is the pressure fed upgrade. However, I put the collars on mine back in the mid 80's. If a tensioner fails, it's not catastrophic, the collar prevents it from fully dropping, you hear the rattle, and pull over. Price $21 each.

When I ever have to drop my engine, I'll install a new set of mechanicals, some new collars and it's good for another 25 years.

As far as the pop off valve, I cut mine out with a 2" hole saw and glued it in place myself; again that was over 25 years ago and it still works. $50 at the time.

Hopefully the fact that the engine has never been opened is not considered a negative these days. With only 98k miles this car should have lots left in it if it has been maintained. If I was serious about a purchase, I'd spend the money for a compression or leak down test. I'd rather pay $300 and have some idea about the condition of the engine even if I had to walk away based on the results. Cheaper in the long run.

Here's the tensioner collar.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...set%20of%20%32

floete

Thanks, all.
$21 for the collar but how much for installation? Or is that a job that someone just starting to work on his own car could reasonably do? And yes if I got close to actually buying the car, this car or any P car, I would most certainly get a leakdown test done. That has been drummed into my head repeatedly by everyone and I would not ignore it.

500

Hi Floete,

Maybe this has been mentioned before, but just in case it hasn't, here goes:

It is obvious you are spending a lot of time and effort on your 911 hunt, which can only be a good thing. However, have you had the chance to look and DRIVE a bunch of local cars? The reason I ask is to help you avoid my mistake: I bought the first 911 I tried. The trouble is, now I find myself questioning so many things because I don't have a real feel. For example, I THINK I have a good 915, but sometimes I wonder. Obviously if I had driven a bunch of 'em, I would have the context to make a judgement.

While it is very possible that the "right" 911 ends up being not in your local area, it would probably be a good idea to build up a good base of experience by thoroughly hunting through the local market.

As well, I think Ed nailed it: If you are wanting a car that you can just drive and enjoy right off the bat, you would be much better off to stretch for the more expensive, but nicer type of car, rather than one that needs a bit of work. A bit of work always turns into a lot with those types of cars, and if you are a neophyte in this regard, then you might want a shallower learning curve. Even a really nice car is going to need work sooner rather than later, and that will give you the opportunity to get into it and learn anyway.

Which leads me to the counter-offer you are considering: 9K could be very fair if you are ready and happy to do the work yourself. I can almost guarantee based on that picture that you will need to think about a suspension pan (if you are fussy - if not, the sheet metal may still be OK enough - my car looked better than that). The engine likely is good. With that mileage the only thing I would really fear in an SC is broken head studs. The suspension will be tired, but workable. Restoring it will be many $$. The interior is not horrible, but not great either. So, it is a car with potential, but if you don't want to spend the first year of ownership working on it, you might be happier spending 2X+ as much on a real nice one.

Unequivocally I know that I would have been financially much better off going that route (and I do my own work - I can't imagine how stupidly upside-down I would be if I paid someone to do all the things that have been done...)

daniel the tiger

Hello all
I am the guy that went with Floete to check out the black 83.
My knowledge and experience with these cars can only be considered extensive relative to a newbie, as I am blown away by the knowledge displayed by many of you here and on pelican.
While I have driven several 911s of varying vintages, the only one I've ever turned a wrench on or owned is the 2.2l 911T I've owned for 2.5 yrs.

But - I've got the P Frere book, B Anderson's 911 perf handbook, the 101 projects book, subscribe to excellence, and have trolled the bird board for at least 5 or 6 years.

So...here's my notes:

Shifting:
Compared to the RoW 84 I drove last fall, this 83 shifted pretty smoothly. No grinding into 1st at a stop, easy to get in and out of second (the 84 did not like to downshift from 3-2), fairly low lever effort, pretty easy to find each gear. The shop said the ball cup bushing was replaced but did not say if the coupler or bushings there done. Either way, I imagine some Swepco and it not being 25 degrees out would make it shift better.

Engine:
Did not smoke noticeable on starting. Idled smooth, seemed to pulljust fine from ~3500 on up. Oil pressure good but I'm used to the earlier style gauge so not quite sure if '3' equates to 30 psi or what.
Valves/lifters sounded a bit 'ticky'. No indication of recent valve adjustment.

Left side oil line wet. Permatune in lieu of Bosch CDI box. Everything else appeared stock.
Re: tensioners. I know the design was changed in 1981 (idler arms and something else)...did this make a difference in terms of failure risk? I assume a shop is going to get $1500+ for the hydraulic tensioner parts and labor.

As far as exh side head studs go - would a PPI reveal if they pulled the valve covers and got in there with a flashlight? Would leakdown testing reveal it and where would the hissing come from in that case?

Rest of car - steering wheel is loose. Does not move in and out but up down and maybe left right. Is that the upper steering column bushing issue I've read about?

Let's assume the clutch is the orig rubber centered one. With 98k on it, how soon will this need to be addressed?

With the loose steering wheel it was hard to get a feel for how tight the car drives. But it seemed pretty solid in general.

If floete can get it cheap...I would enjoy helping do basic fix up stuff like brakes/shocks etc etc. My biggest concern is whether an ~8k SC with ltd service records is going to have a significantly higher cost of ownership than that 12k one he also posted...

Dan

Brett San Diego

I think the answer to this question is a very clear, "Maybe." The big ticket items, engine and transmission, can be evaluated to a great extent with the proper equipment, techniques, and experience. You've already done some of that process. The other thing to look at is if long term wear items have been replaced/rebuilt on either. I'm thinking about suspension parts (shocks, bushings), rubber/plastic trim, brake calipers, master cylinder, clutch. These things will nickel and dime you. If one car has a lot of these kind of things done, then that may be the better choice cost wise.

Usually the broken head stud will fall out when you remove the valve cover. Mine did. Damn.

Oil pressure gauge is in bars (1 bar = 14.5 psi).

From what I've seen and read, between these two 911s, I'd be asking myself, "Do I want to drive a black one or a silver one?"

Brett

HarryD

Dan:

I am late to the party but there seems to be some fixation on the Tensioner upgrade.

IMHO, while the Carrera (pressure fed) upgrade is better, if you have or just install collars you are probablly ok. Just be aware of hte warning sounds and address the problem at your leisure. This would not be a dealbreaker in my book.

For the steering wheel, if it is up/down, then most likely a bad bushing. Inexpensive to DIY fix. Not a deal killer.

Lack of records doesn't help, but you pays your money and youy takes your chances. This is one issue each person has to make thier own decision on. A car with extensive records will typically command top dollar. We are not talking a top dollar car here.

Like many said, a PPI including a compression and/or leakdown test and examination for broken headstuds would be worthwhile to seal the deal. A broken head stud woiuld require some deep thought.

whalebird

Daniel. It's uber cool that you went to look at this car. You have helped the entire process for a new owner as well as setting a sterling example here.
As for the car, It's been said, and I agree, that a 911 is a 20K car. If you buy it for 9k, plan on 11k to get it right. This is a loosly applied rule, but worst case scenario here is you get the car for 9k (really a good deal given how it shows) and you will reasonably consider that you will have to pull the motor, do the tensioners and a clutch disc. Possibly head studs. In the end you have a bulletproof car that going to last for decades with proper ownership. Your still nowhere near 20K. Cosmetics may need some attention, but that is easy and can be done incrementally while still using the car as a driver. Paint appears to be original and that is a huge plus in my book, even if it's aging. Respray will hide all kinds of voodoo in the cars past.
I think you have a candidate here. Revisit this car and see what you think after stewing on it a bit.