911 2.7 liter engine rebuild
09-11-2002, 10:08 AM
#16
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Martin...you can rebuild the 2.7 if you have the ambition..the bad 2.7 rebuilds are because they were not rebuilt correctly, in my opnion..the proper 911 machinest is extremely important..all upgrade info is available..I suggest Raceware head studs and rod bolts..I'm not a pro, but I need a bullet proof 2.7 to do cross country rides here in the U.S. ..my 2.7 has already done this 2X..14,746 miles and 17,946 miles..and for serious laughs I challenged the big mouth 3.2 and 3.6 owners to a U.S. round trip cross country ride..no passenger, no mechanical help, and no cell phone...nobody replied...for more trivia. I rebuilt the 2.7 on the 2nd floor of my house/in the library..the bride was a PIA for 3 months.. this will be a great story to follow on this board and an exciting project for you..Do It...
09-11-2002, 02:32 PM
#17
Martin,
I have owned a couple of 2.7's, so my knowledge is limited to what I have read in many places over a number of years, talking to knowledgable technical folks, and my experiences.....several of which were related to whether to rebuild,replace with newer motor, or sell the car dilemma. I ended up selling one car before a stud pulled, and replacing the motor of the other car with a 3.0, now 3.2 )
I do know that the proper rebuild of a 2.7 goes beyond timecerts and studs, which can lots of machine work include shuffle pins, line boring and mods. I'd start with Bruce Anderson's Performance Handbooks, and talk to some machine shops and rebuilders(key word is reputable here), some of which are referenced in this and other discussion threads on the topic.
If you replace the case with another 2.7 case, it may not be any better that the original matching #'s case in the car. If you go to a later, aluminum case used in the SCs or Carrera's you might as well buy the whole motor since the #'s will no longer match ..... either a nice used one with low miles, or a core that could be rebuilt more easily and reliably. IMHO
I have owned a couple of 2.7's, so my knowledge is limited to what I have read in many places over a number of years, talking to knowledgable technical folks, and my experiences.....several of which were related to whether to rebuild,replace with newer motor, or sell the car dilemma. I ended up selling one car before a stud pulled, and replacing the motor of the other car with a 3.0, now 3.2 )
I do know that the proper rebuild of a 2.7 goes beyond timecerts and studs, which can lots of machine work include shuffle pins, line boring and mods. I'd start with Bruce Anderson's Performance Handbooks, and talk to some machine shops and rebuilders(key word is reputable here), some of which are referenced in this and other discussion threads on the topic.
If you replace the case with another 2.7 case, it may not be any better that the original matching #'s case in the car. If you go to a later, aluminum case used in the SCs or Carrera's you might as well buy the whole motor since the #'s will no longer match ..... either a nice used one with low miles, or a core that could be rebuilt more easily and reliably. IMHO
09-11-2002, 06:21 PM
#18
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Hello
The best would be to consult a expert to have the actuall status from your engine.
Oilleaks can maybe be fixed without rebuilding the engine.
However at 250 Tkm the heads need a refresh and the Alusil P&C are mostly oval, worn away.
Your 77 should have the last stage 7R case and a HKZ from the factory.
Finding more power with the CIS is more expensive the buying more power with a good used 3,0 SC engine. However the 175 HP S version is simple to built, with some touches you can peak up to 185/190 HP.
I also learned from a friend who introduced my to rennlist, that it's highly uncool to post topics using your entire name, like I did
No, its vice versa very uncool to post under nicknames. That was usefull in the computer stoneage but we are allready out of that.
Grüsse
The best would be to consult a expert to have the actuall status from your engine.
Oilleaks can maybe be fixed without rebuilding the engine.
However at 250 Tkm the heads need a refresh and the Alusil P&C are mostly oval, worn away.
Your 77 should have the last stage 7R case and a HKZ from the factory.
Finding more power with the CIS is more expensive the buying more power with a good used 3,0 SC engine. However the 175 HP S version is simple to built, with some touches you can peak up to 185/190 HP.
I also learned from a friend who introduced my to rennlist, that it's highly uncool to post topics using your entire name, like I did
No, its vice versa very uncool to post under nicknames. That was usefull in the computer stoneage but we are allready out of that.
Grüsse
09-12-2002, 05:43 AM
#19
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Thank you 'jlkline' for the latest hints. I think you're absolutely right. I'm about to check with the local Porsche Club whether the engine/gearbox numbers are really the original ones (to my knowledge there has never been an engine change, but my knowledge does not reach back to 1977). On the certificate that I received from the Porsche factory the three last digits are 'xxx' .
I'll screen the region for a good machinery shop to do the main work and try to find an old Porsche hand who may assist me with practical advise during the disassembly / reassembly job. I'll also send an e-mail down to RUF to inquire into the possibilities of a complete rebuild (although I'm afraid that I can't really afford their service).
Hello Roland, thanks also for your advise. Well, as we know by now, I do have a '7R' case but you're introducing a new problem: 'oval pistons and cylinders'. Does this mean I have to have them replaced completely? To my knowledge it's no problem getting a new set of pistons/cylinders. Will they fit to my old cylinder heads without any problem? How about upgrading to 2.8 or 2.9 cylinders? Would I have to change / modify the cylinder heads also? And what do you recommend concerning the cylinder stud problem? Having them replaced in any case or live with them as they are (if they turn out to be intact)? And do you know a reputable shop down here in southern Germany for the machinery work? I'd like, in any case, to do part of the work on my own so I'm looking for a kind of co-operation. I definitely don't want to drop off my car somewhere, coming back four weeks later and simply pay the bill (after all I'm not a dentist). The ideal case would be a retired professional who looks back on decades of professional (Porsche) engine work who is getting bored by simply raking his garden during his retirement and is willing to do the rebuild the engine together with me (for a reasonable fee!). You might say, OK, dream on boy. But, I'm convinced that there are guys like that out there.
Hope to hear from you.
Martin
911 2.7 1977
I'll screen the region for a good machinery shop to do the main work and try to find an old Porsche hand who may assist me with practical advise during the disassembly / reassembly job. I'll also send an e-mail down to RUF to inquire into the possibilities of a complete rebuild (although I'm afraid that I can't really afford their service).
Hello Roland, thanks also for your advise. Well, as we know by now, I do have a '7R' case but you're introducing a new problem: 'oval pistons and cylinders'. Does this mean I have to have them replaced completely? To my knowledge it's no problem getting a new set of pistons/cylinders. Will they fit to my old cylinder heads without any problem? How about upgrading to 2.8 or 2.9 cylinders? Would I have to change / modify the cylinder heads also? And what do you recommend concerning the cylinder stud problem? Having them replaced in any case or live with them as they are (if they turn out to be intact)? And do you know a reputable shop down here in southern Germany for the machinery work? I'd like, in any case, to do part of the work on my own so I'm looking for a kind of co-operation. I definitely don't want to drop off my car somewhere, coming back four weeks later and simply pay the bill (after all I'm not a dentist). The ideal case would be a retired professional who looks back on decades of professional (Porsche) engine work who is getting bored by simply raking his garden during his retirement and is willing to do the rebuild the engine together with me (for a reasonable fee!). You might say, OK, dream on boy. But, I'm convinced that there are guys like that out there.
Hope to hear from you.
Martin
911 2.7 1977
09-18-2002, 06:07 AM
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Hello guys,
I've been out of town for a few days and had no occasion to check the forum. Pls excuse the delay of my response.
Aaron, my e-mail is m.schweter@gmx.net. I already sent you an e-mail with some pics showing my car at rallye events.
Thanks Paco for the 101-link. A friend from the PCA german section already informed me about this book. I already downloaded some technical reports and I'm keenly awaiting the publication of the new book.
I'll maybe present my car to the RUF team early next week. I'll keep you all informed about their diagnosis.
Bye. Martin
911 2.7 1977
I've been out of town for a few days and had no occasion to check the forum. Pls excuse the delay of my response.
Aaron, my e-mail is m.schweter@gmx.net. I already sent you an e-mail with some pics showing my car at rallye events.
Thanks Paco for the 101-link. A friend from the PCA german section already informed me about this book. I already downloaded some technical reports and I'm keenly awaiting the publication of the new book.
I'll maybe present my car to the RUF team early next week. I'll keep you all informed about their diagnosis.
Bye. Martin
911 2.7 1977
09-22-2002, 12:00 AM
#23
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Martin,
A heads-up on the 911 rebuild: Wayne Dempsey (author of 101 Projects for your Porsche) has been working on a book detailing a 911 engine rebuild for over 2 years. The publication date will be in January 03, but you should be able to get a pre-publication copy (in black and white) sometime in October, directly from Pelican Parts. I'm planning on rebuilding my 68S engine, using this as a guide.
Enjoy the rebuild,
john
A heads-up on the 911 rebuild: Wayne Dempsey (author of 101 Projects for your Porsche) has been working on a book detailing a 911 engine rebuild for over 2 years. The publication date will be in January 03, but you should be able to get a pre-publication copy (in black and white) sometime in October, directly from Pelican Parts. I'm planning on rebuilding my 68S engine, using this as a guide.
Enjoy the rebuild,
john
