Looking for a 911, and some wisdom
11-08-2009, 11:07 PM
#1
2nd Gear
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Looking for a 911, and some wisdom
Hello all,
This is my first post on Rennlist...
I am looking for either an SC, or a Carrera (84-89) coupe. I absolutely love the body styling of those years, and I love the engineering and class that a 911 has to offer.
First off, other than the difference in transmission, and the extra .2 liters in the Carrera, does anyone think I should go with one over the other (SC or Carrera.)
My next question is about miles... The 911s of this vintage that I have found with low miles (<60k) seem to be pretty pricey, for me anyway. I have seen a lot of these cars with 100k to 150k miles on them, that have had engine rebuilds. Should I steer away from rebuilt motors?
What are some things I should watch out for? What pitfalls exist in this vintage?
My final question, is about price. I would love to get in to a 911 for $15,000 or under, but I don't want a project. I want a solid machine in great shape. Is this reasonable? If not, what should I expect to pay?
Thanks in advance for the advice!
~Max
This is my first post on Rennlist...
I am looking for either an SC, or a Carrera (84-89) coupe. I absolutely love the body styling of those years, and I love the engineering and class that a 911 has to offer.
First off, other than the difference in transmission, and the extra .2 liters in the Carrera, does anyone think I should go with one over the other (SC or Carrera.)
My next question is about miles... The 911s of this vintage that I have found with low miles (<60k) seem to be pretty pricey, for me anyway. I have seen a lot of these cars with 100k to 150k miles on them, that have had engine rebuilds. Should I steer away from rebuilt motors?
What are some things I should watch out for? What pitfalls exist in this vintage?
My final question, is about price. I would love to get in to a 911 for $15,000 or under, but I don't want a project. I want a solid machine in great shape. Is this reasonable? If not, what should I expect to pay?
Thanks in advance for the advice!
~Max
11-08-2009, 11:33 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Welcome. Where are you located?? I just sold a really nice 91k mile 83' SC for $13,000. You'd be amazed at some of the deals out there (caveat) if you know what you're looking at.
Motronic FI is the biggest difference between the SC and Carrera. The tranny's were only changed in 87-89. Common knowledge is, but the best model you can afford regardless if it's a SC or Carrera. A great SC is better than an average Carrera.
Motronic FI is the biggest difference between the SC and Carrera. The tranny's were only changed in 87-89. Common knowledge is, but the best model you can afford regardless if it's a SC or Carrera. A great SC is better than an average Carrera.
11-09-2009, 10:27 AM
#4
Team Owner
Well first things first . you should get Petes Book the used 911 story as many of your questions will be answered there.
You have picked a great class of car wether the SC or Carrera. The Carrera is more advanced , has more power, usually optioned a little more and is a truely fine machine.
it has Motronic ( which is basically electronic fuel injection ) a 3.2 litre engine, upgradeable brain etc.also some have the G-50 gearbox. arguabley a more modern refined transmision.
I Personally have an SC . Very reasonably priced, 3.0 litre . has CIS ( google it ) . it can be a bit complex but if you understand the principles it isn't oo bad. it is a matter of " set it and forget it " . No computer brain but are very affordable fun cars.
Each has their pitfalls but none should keep you away from purchase if they are checked out thoroughly.
It is worth spending a couple hundred bucks getting a PPI no matter which model you choose.
The last point I will make is don't go in cheap. On your budget you are looking at a nice SC. Don't stretch for a poor Carrera and not have the money to maintain or reapair anything that come up. unfortunately that is the fate that the 944 sucumbed to . To many were bought by people that couldn'rt afford to own them and the brand has suffered due to this.
You will have lots of great advice following mine. Although we tease each other a lot both are very fine cars and you should be proud to own either model.
You have picked a great class of car wether the SC or Carrera. The Carrera is more advanced , has more power, usually optioned a little more and is a truely fine machine.
it has Motronic ( which is basically electronic fuel injection ) a 3.2 litre engine, upgradeable brain etc.also some have the G-50 gearbox. arguabley a more modern refined transmision.
I Personally have an SC . Very reasonably priced, 3.0 litre . has CIS ( google it ) . it can be a bit complex but if you understand the principles it isn't oo bad. it is a matter of " set it and forget it " . No computer brain but are very affordable fun cars.
Each has their pitfalls but none should keep you away from purchase if they are checked out thoroughly.
It is worth spending a couple hundred bucks getting a PPI no matter which model you choose.
The last point I will make is don't go in cheap. On your budget you are looking at a nice SC. Don't stretch for a poor Carrera and not have the money to maintain or reapair anything that come up. unfortunately that is the fate that the 944 sucumbed to . To many were bought by people that couldn'rt afford to own them and the brand has suffered due to this.
You will have lots of great advice following mine. Although we tease each other a lot both are very fine cars and you should be proud to own either model.
11-09-2009, 04:51 PM
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I bought my '84 in the Twin Cities. To give you an idea, it had about 120k but service records showing a top-end overhaul and transmission/clutch work at 88k. Whether you're looking at a 3.0 or 3.2, I believe most of the engine issues are top end...valves guides...and the bottom end should last almost forever. Some will say if the engine is approaching 80-100k and it hasn't had valve work done to budget for it.
PPI are always a must (although I didn't!), but I wouildn't necessarily shy away from an otherwise satisfactory car just because the mileage is a bit higher and the engine has had some work done.
I have some warping in the dash, a few paint chips, but with the previously-mentioned work along with new rotors and pads I paid $14.5...and that was before the economy tanked. Point being that accepting a few cosmetic flaws for a mechanically sound car at a good price may be an acceptable trade-off.
Since you're in the Twin Cities, go to nordstern.org, the Minnesota PCA chapter. They have a classified section in their monthly magazine that might give you a lead or two. There is an '86 Targa for sale in our local paper...96k for $13.5k with a Minnesota phone number. Perhaps it's in the Tribune as well. I haven't called so know nothing about the car other than what's listed in the ad. Might be listed because it's beginning to smoke...who knows...
PPI are always a must (although I didn't!), but I wouildn't necessarily shy away from an otherwise satisfactory car just because the mileage is a bit higher and the engine has had some work done.
I have some warping in the dash, a few paint chips, but with the previously-mentioned work along with new rotors and pads I paid $14.5...and that was before the economy tanked. Point being that accepting a few cosmetic flaws for a mechanically sound car at a good price may be an acceptable trade-off.
Since you're in the Twin Cities, go to nordstern.org, the Minnesota PCA chapter. They have a classified section in their monthly magazine that might give you a lead or two. There is an '86 Targa for sale in our local paper...96k for $13.5k with a Minnesota phone number. Perhaps it's in the Tribune as well. I haven't called so know nothing about the car other than what's listed in the ad. Might be listed because it's beginning to smoke...who knows...
11-09-2009, 05:17 PM
#6
Track Day
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I can't speak from experience on any other model than what I own. I have a 78' SC that I paid less than half of your budget for (I got lucky) that has 160k on it. It's been well taken care of for the most part. It has had some repairs but never been rebuilt. There is still plenty of life left in her and I don't notice any power loss. Even though I've owned some very nice vehicles in my day this one is by FAR the most fun to drive.
I agree with everything the other guys have said so far but I will tell you this. In my shopping I found the one thing that seemed to drive the price down on vehicles that I found mechanically acceptable was the interior. You could have a really reliable and well kept car that looked great until you opened the door and found cracked leather and worn carpet. I realize you don't want a project but if I were you and I found a car that was right in every other way, I wouldn't shy away from a purchase if the cost of a new interior fits your budget. The right guy can knock it out in a few weeks and having it looking brand new.
And I know it's been said already but it can't be said enough. Peter's book should be in your pocket when you show up to look at a potential purchase. It's very obvious when you read it that the man has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about our own vehicles.
I agree with everything the other guys have said so far but I will tell you this. In my shopping I found the one thing that seemed to drive the price down on vehicles that I found mechanically acceptable was the interior. You could have a really reliable and well kept car that looked great until you opened the door and found cracked leather and worn carpet. I realize you don't want a project but if I were you and I found a car that was right in every other way, I wouldn't shy away from a purchase if the cost of a new interior fits your budget. The right guy can knock it out in a few weeks and having it looking brand new.
And I know it's been said already but it can't be said enough. Peter's book should be in your pocket when you show up to look at a potential purchase. It's very obvious when you read it that the man has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about our own vehicles.
11-10-2009, 05:57 AM
#7
RL Community Team
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One thing I learned about these cars is that they are so cool, yet so different, that if you drive only one before you buy (which is pretty much what I did), you will likely come away from the car with a good impression, because it is so unusual and visceral. It may not compare at all to anything else you've driven and you will probably love it.
The danger there is that condition really does vary. Drive as many SCs and Carreras as you can to get an idea of what seperates the good ones from the great ones.
I firmly echo that SC vs. Carrera is a wash. Get a NICE one of either model.
If you are OK with some cosmetic issues, that is fine, but if you are thinking to buy a car with cosmetic issues and then fix those to a high standard, then you will likely be better off financially finding a car that is pristine from the get-go. Ask me how I know!
The danger there is that condition really does vary. Drive as many SCs and Carreras as you can to get an idea of what seperates the good ones from the great ones.
I firmly echo that SC vs. Carrera is a wash. Get a NICE one of either model.
If you are OK with some cosmetic issues, that is fine, but if you are thinking to buy a car with cosmetic issues and then fix those to a high standard, then you will likely be better off financially finding a car that is pristine from the get-go. Ask me how I know!
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11-10-2009, 11:17 AM
#8
I have had Porsches older than my SC and now am lucky enoughin retirement to have some much newer but the '83 SC is a keeper and will be passed to my son. Lacks some creature comforts of my '09 Carrera S but is absolutely a joy to drive.
11-10-2009, 11:20 PM
#9
Back in '07 I sold an '82 SC Targa Guards Red/Tan 83k miles with every receipt from new,with all the proper upgrades (Chain Tensioners, An upgraded oil cooler, and high end A/C that is the best of any air cooled car I have ever had.) A very nice clean and orig car. It sold quickly at my asking price of $15,500. I would think that it should be even easier to find one in that price range today. That said, at least try out an '87-'89 car with the G50 Gearbox. I have always thought that it just makes what was an already great car SO much nicer to drive. I wouldn't say go for an ok G50 car over a really nice one with a 915 'box but it is something I recommend you try.
11-11-2009, 01:00 AM
#10
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Max, I am in the exact same boat as you here in Seattle! looking for an SC or 3.2. I have read many books on 911's in my short tenure already and am reading Peter's book now. Great advice here also.
I can't say enough about a PPI. I just turned down an 83' SC coupe(asking $15.9) that was masking oil leaks from 3 cylinders and had horrible leak down numbers. The mechanic said 25 hours of labor to fix these problems! Be careful out there. My $200 was money well spent.
Scot
I can't say enough about a PPI. I just turned down an 83' SC coupe(asking $15.9) that was masking oil leaks from 3 cylinders and had horrible leak down numbers. The mechanic said 25 hours of labor to fix these problems! Be careful out there. My $200 was money well spent.
Scot
11-12-2009, 10:14 AM
#12
You should be able to get a nice SC out there for that price. I would be more concerned with mechanicals first than the paint etc. If your going to drive the car the paint will get chipped anyway. SC motors are durable and if properly maintained can last 300-400k miles or more (bottom end). The Carrera 3.2 liter for a nice one will set you back in the low to mid 20's.
11-30-2009, 08:54 AM
#14
chris