I am new to this forum and could use some advice badly. Early on in my search for my dream 911 I purchased the book, The Used 911 Story. Excellent book, I read it cover to cover, and it had a lot of great advice, including a very valuable recommendation to have a complete PPI done before purchase. I have looked at several 911's in the area, including a rough-looking 1987 Targa for $12500, a squeaky and overpriced Iris Blue 1982 911SC Targa for $15k and most recently a Minerva Blue 1982SC Coupe for $11k with 166k miles and no documented engine rebuild, top or bottom, in its lifetime and no Carrera Chain Tensioner upgrade. The gentleman that owns the Minerva Blue 911SC apparently had taken it down the road to a pretty reputable local Porsche mechanic when he first bought it in 2001 and put about $2,100 into it, but did not have the engine rebuilt as I am finding out from the mechanic was recommended at the time. The owner has only put 6k on the car in the eight years he has owned it. The local Porsche mechanic is advising that a top end rebuild will set me back around $8500 with a new clutch thrown in if this is what the car needs. The main issue I am having is telling the owner that I would like the full PPI done because it will be a drive for him, about an hour. In a roundabout way, he suggested the name of a mechanic that was local to him, but I'm finding out that this mechanic will probably not want to do a full PPI, including a leak down and compression tests because he is not strictly a Porsche mechanic and in his words, he doesn't do the big stuff any more (he is close to retirement) and Porsche's aren't his favorite.

Can anyone give me some advice on whether I should just suck it up and take it to the local mechanic for the less-than-full PPI, or ask the current owner to haul his car out to the guy who he took it to when he bought it, knowing full well what this mechanic is probably going to tell me, that the engine is in need of a rebuild. The other suggestion that was made was to offer the owner less than his asking price (between $8500 and $10000 according to this mechanic) and take it in for an engine rebuild to give it new life. I know there is a lot here to take in, but I would appreciate any advice you Porsche lovers can offer. Regards, Jeff in Indianapolis

 

Well Jeff in Indianapolis, sounds like you are going about things the right way at least and have done some homework, but I htink you are letting the process get in the way of what you already knw at this point.
Sounds like you want a 911 real bad , don't let that emotion get in the way of buying a car , or not buying a car. YOu do a PI to find any major issues before purchase. With this particular car you already KNOW the car needs a top end, so you have saved yourself the PPI and move on. Sounds like a guy who bought a car and did not want to spend the money to look after it, what more do you need to know.

That said if you really want a PPI , it is your PPI you are paying for and go to a place you choose, If he doesn't cooperate you move on. What is the point of a half arsed PPI ....nothing ..

Good luck ..

 

Thanks for the advice, I believe you told me what I already suspected, that I was letting my own excitement about owning my dream car cloud my judgment. This was suggested in Peter's book and I told myself I wouldn't let that happen to me. I think I'm going to let this one go mainly because I don't have the bank roll for a total engine rebuild right now and keep looking. From my personal conversations with the owner, he is a great guy with what could be a really great car if it receives the attention it so badly deserves.

 

I think ice hit it on the head, and you sound level headed. You'll just need us to temper your emotion until you find the right car, which you will.

None of those cars really sounded like bargains in this market. As you've figured out, there are no cheap Porsches, and it is a lot less money in the long run to find one that is in decent cosmetic shape to start with, partly showing she's seen the care a 911 deserves, and then using the PPI effectively as a tool to weed out or show any mechanical needs or hidden defects.

Don't be afraid to expand your search to a car that may require a plane flight to pick up. We can only assume a 911 will be a keeper for you, so it is worth the investment of time and a little travel expense if you find the right car.

 

take it from me...I didn't get married until age 39...and took about 2-3 years to find the right 911...well worth the wait...also try big city Craigslists......that's were I found mine.............later....dwight

 

Great advise your getting. My first 911 I looked at was Minerva blue...god I love that color. Anyway it does sound like you need to keep searching. There are alot of good bargains to be had. There is one on this site here..the black carrera in another post....he sent me pics which I have not looked at he wants 13500 take a look at that car. I am still on the fence as I recently had an accident in my 3 series...and if they total it I may buy that car. It is need of some paint love...but thats cheaper than mechanical.

 

Wags: OK, let's talk about the Minerva Blue car. '82 SCs are not prone to breaking cylinder head studs, but can. Therefore, a PPI can't be half of a PPI, the whole thing must be done on that car. During the PPI the first thing that I would do is have the technician take out the oil and remove the lower valve covers. The camshaft lobes should be examined for pitting, and the ends of the lower (Dilavar) head studs can be checked. That will tell you; (1) if you need the top end disassembled for studs ($4K), or (2) if you need cam replacement including Carrera Tensioners (cost will vary greatly shop to shop), or (3) if you only need Carrera Tensioners including chain guides (6) and cam o-rings ($750.00 + labor). At that point you can choose to do the rest of the PPI, or you can abandon the purchase based on which of the three need doing, and how much the seller might be willing to discount the car.

You must establish, with your PPI tech, in advance of the appointment that this is what you want done. BTW, there is probably only a remote possibility that the engine will need a "rebuild," about $15K.

If you like what you hear you can have the rest of the PPI done (https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...immermann.html) and go from there.

One of the things that you can do is to get repair history on the transmission, it must have had synchros done and it would be very helpful for me to know when, and by whom. Good luck with it!

 

Why is it whenever Peter talk about transmission rebuilds, I envision this big ol' Grizzly Bear grabbing for my wallet, or I have this big piano hanging by a string over me?

I do really thank you for pointing out just what is entailed in a rebuild of the trans. I've decided that when the time ever comes for mine, it won't be me rebuilding it. I did OK on the motor build, but all those gears and other parts, and the tools needed to do it right have me convinced I have no business in there.

 

I think i am gonna try mine when it is due I think I can handle some scynchros and dog teeth. But a lot will depend on what happens if and when I take it apart for the initial inspection. If I need that special sleeve Pete talked about a couple of months ago .. forget it .. is going to someone in a crate.. But if it all looks solid and all I need are bands, scynchros and dog teeth , then I will read and go for it...

 

That is a very logical suggestion about doing a potential PPI in the stages described, so you have the option of just calling it off and limiting your losses if the news on the motor is bad.

Having said that, I echo what has been said here about taking your time. I got a little too excited about my 911 and (I hate to admit these things) ended up paying more than I should have. Although the car is actually pretty solid, it was a diamond in the rough and I have pored a ton of time and moola into it (and I do a lot of the work myself). At this stage, it is coming together quite nicely and will be a good, solid 911. However, I have seen many cars in the meantime which were much closer to "right" and would have made better purchases from the economic standpoint. Don't repeat my mistakes!

This is your first 911 I guess, and perhaps your first Porsche. Get into a nice one that is not going to need a ton of work at the outset.

 

Hey amj when are you bringing one of those beasts down to chapters for a Saturday morning get together ?

 

Funny you should mention that! It is one of my "goals" to get the 911 back together from that suspension pan odyssey in time to make it to at least one of these legendary get-togethers! I think it will be done by the first or second week of September...

 

Darn tools!

 

All good advise.
I would also like to sugguest that if you do find a good car and take it for a PPI do not take it to the shop the seller was dealing with. Ask me how I know, lets just say that it turned out to be a disaster.
Wait for the car that feels right, I personally did three PPI's before ending up with the 911 that I have now. The hunt is part of the adventure and the better the hunt the better the future adventures with the car will be.

John

1990 964 C4 aka "Baby"

 

come on shack .. don't we all love a good horror story