Remember me?...

I have changed jobs and have been very busy working. Not much time for searching the internet...Some of you may remember me posting awhile back about a "ticking" noise I was hearing on my car.

Well I was scared of driving her because I did not want to make a small problem worse...well it is a big problem anyway. Finally took my car down to Vortex Motorsports here in Tampa. (Doug has a great place) Anyway...bottom line...3 broken head studs.

I kinda had the feeling all along that this was going to be the outcome. I do not feel I have the patience nor the knowhow/tools/space/time to do the work myself. I fully trust Vortex with the work. Mechanic says my car is in great shape and very worthy of the top end rebuild. Like most of you the cost of this work is not something I can just whip out of my back pocket.

Sell as is or suck it up? sigh...

 

well it would depend on the quote of the work vs, the cost of the car ballanced against waht you could get for it.
I don't think many of us on this forum can "whip out" the cost of this repair neve rmind in this economy when many are wondering if they will have a job next week so I think we all feel your pain.

Are all 3 on the same side ? Do you fancy tacking this job yourself ? What kind of quote did you get ?

There are always options .. i think selling it for what you could get might amount to giving the car away .

Good luck on whatever you decide, and if you decide to tackle it youself I am sure there are lots of guys around to help. There is always the possibility of taking your motor out yourself and trading it in for one that has been redone. may work out a little cheaper, although you will be dealing with an unknown.

 

You could do this with a little help from someone local to you. Someone here or on Pelican is near you and can help. Get on the forums and ask for a little assistance. Someone else might have some used head studs that you could get cheap.

Don't be afraid to ask for help. Then decide if you need to sell the car.

One other thing. even good cars are going for low prices now, or not selling. Be very careful about putting money in, as a 6000.00 Porsche with bad head studs might sell as easily as a 10,000.00+ Porsche with new head studs. Also, don't be too hasty to sell, unless you just want out. Patience and vision can often see you to a brighter day.

Don't be afraid to ask for a miracle. You just might get one, make some new friends, and learn something in the process. This is a community, and we want to see each other do well. That means you too, Michael.

 

the cost of these fixes is not really the parts that btoke , but the while you are in there stuff and paying for the expetise involved. I am sure you could buy individual head studs from Porsche for a couple hundred bucks, maybe a little more if you are doing all one side ... which of course , you should do while your in their.
Then it depends on what you want to do . You could just put it all back together knowing you hvae not done a rebiild put repaired your problem. If I were paying a mech i would expect him to do it all right and do all the while your in their stuf because warranty is on his dime. But depending on your mechanical knowledge and your budget i think this could be repaired reasonably.

I have not done nearly the stiuff most people have on their car but i would not hesitate to tear it dwon and do a top end, when i got to the critical stuff (cam timing ) i would not hesitate to pay a mech or someone knowledgable to come over and time the cams if i wasn't sure . The rest is just about organization and preparedness.

 

In my mind I will take the cost of anything and divide it by the years I will own it. This way I fool myself into thinking, hey, this ain't so bad. I call this the mental payment plan. There is also the joy of driving that a price cannot be placed.

If you sell your car now, how much will you get for it? It won't be pretty.

 

Michael, good to hear you're still with us, sad to hear about the studs. As I recall, your car has no oil consumption issues, and has a little more than 100K miles, right? If so, that's in your favor. I don't know the folks at Vortex, but I'd love to know what they anticipate finding upon disassembly, including a price quote. They obviously must have removed both exhaust rocker covers to do the broken stud count, did they comment on anything else, such as Carrera Tensioners?

 

Stomski Racing has a kit available that will drill out your broken head studs. Since selling the car would be not so good, I'd keep it if you didn't have to sell it yet. Otherwise, you might get a rush of bravery and try the repair yourself. I think the inspection/ teardown should be with someone who is experienced knowledgable, because it is in this stage that future problems can be identified. As Iceman pointed out, you can do a lot of the work, which involves taking the engine out and cleaning cleaning cleaning yourself.

Ack! I have to go on record and correct myself. The Stomski kit is for exhaust studs. That'll teach me to post and talk on the phone at the same time.

Have you tried posting in the Pelican engine rebuilders forum? Maybe they have some ideas or inspiration for you.

 

I just finished a top end rebuild (3 broken head studs). I was lucky enough to have a good friend as a mechanic. It took me about 4 months, $6K (including labor, new studs, heads, gaskets, ect) and a lot of patience. Let's just say i'm more than pleased with the outcome. The engine responds x10 better than before, it's a new car!

If you love your car the choice is easy, keep it. Just have patience, and don't cut corners.

 

Anyone that knows me knows that I am absolutely in love with this car. I would feel much better if I burned the car to the ground than to sell it to anyone...even at a profit.

Yes Pete, you are correct...I am at about 110,000 miles. As you and I have talked about, it does not have the tensioner upgrade and this would be done as well. You can go ahead and add SSI's to the to do list. I will get a written estimate next week. Except for the motor, the car is in way above average condition and puts to shame much newer cars as far as condition. The wrench even stated that the car is way too nice to "not" do a rebuild.

I do have some mechanical skills, but I would prefer having a respected race shop do my rebuild and stand behind their work rather than cross my fingers on the job that I would do. I would not go in and only fix what was broke...It will be a while your in there job.

My guess is that I will be in the $4,000 to $5,000 for labor alone. Perhaps if I had an airconditioned garage and did not work as many hours as I do currently, I would love to get my hand dirty and do the work myself. I only have a single car garage, which would mean the car would really need to sit outside while I tore the motor down in the garage...I would not be happy leaving my car outside for 6+ months. Many factors to think about.I am very nit-picky and sure I could muster thru it. I am still thinking thru it.

 

I am/was a pipeline welder for many decades. I'm the person that fit, welded, ground and buff the welds on mild steel to hold up to 1000 psi natural gas and pass x-ray, pipe would go to 72 inches.........that is my training.
I can tear up a house, move walls, electric, sewer and foundations. I'm not bragging because its all fact.

I suspect a Porsche engine could be done by me but at what cost? It isn't what I do and I don't have training in my history. I guess its different if you have nothing else to do.
I'd work a bunch of overtime and let the company I work for end up paying for it.
Now, Pete and Rusnak do things like this but I ain't proud.
I'll let a trained pro do my engine..........it's what they do
I didn't build it in the first place.......I think it was a German guy

 

how do head studs brake? is it common on certain years? i have an 88.

 

A typical top end on an SC should take about 30 hours labor, with an additional 4 hours to do the head studs. If you only replace the twelve Dilavar lower studs, that's a significant savings compared to replacing all 24 studs. This decision must be made following disassembly.

If the car has no abuse history (racing, running low on oil, etc.) and it does not have an oil consumption issue (it uses one quart/1,000 miles or better), it would be possible to do nothing other than the studs, resurface the heads, install the Carrera Tensioners + new chain guides (ramps), and put it together. My biggest fear is that your engine has been run on Castrol, and the "tick" that you hear has nothing to do with broken studs, but, instead, could be failing (pitted) camshafts and worn rocker arms.

The noise made by compression leaking due to stud failure is more like when you make a fist with one hand, and strike the open palm of your other hand (or the pocket of a baseball glove) with your fist. Do that rapidly and you hear compression loss.

I would really feel better about your situation if you would jack up your car, one side at a time, and remove your lower rocker covers and verify broken studs - this is easy to do. At the same time you can check out your cam lobes for pitting.

 

Pete, I will ask them for exact location of head studs that are broke. I am almost certain they said bottom. I have always ran Valvoline in the car, and I know for fact that the last two owners also ran Valvoline.

I thought that I had read somewhere that it was a good idea to do a top end rebuild after broken head studs. What are the risks if you do not? I know that I only put a few miles on the car after hearing the first noise.

 

I'm not technical, but it sounds like the implicit recommendation is to get another opinion! I'd seek out two or three (if you can budget it), ask for thorough documentation, then post the results on Rennlist or Pelican for review by the community...

I feel your pain, but try to learn from this process...

My $0.02,
-Blake

 

..but if the studs are broke .. then their broke .. I find it hard to belive a mech could say 3 ae broke without looking. in fact Michael should have 3 pieces of stud and nut in his hand by now if they are broken ..