911tracker85

auto_werks .... you should not have encouraged me. 911vet knows as we met at MidOhio in april.

converted non-believer? not totally sure what you mean by that. OK, I'll open myself up for Ed's rath, which I have read in other threads. (it's OK Ed... go for it!)

I basically agree with you. my cage side bars have the thick padding. I am tall, so if I had an accident I could hit the side of my head on the bar. as I use 3pt OEM belts on the street, without the cage hard to tell what all I may hit my head on in a wreck.

years ago, 1974, I had a little Mercury Capri. I got T-boned by a big car at 50 mph who ran a red light. my window was up. when I regained consciousness there was a cop yelling at me to respond to him, I and my car were 100+ ft from where I had been hit. despite the door impact beams the other car had shoved my door about to the middle of driver seat area. window shattered by my head and I and the driver's seat were on top of the trans tunnel.

now that I have everyone thinking 'OH NOOOOO', I was very lucky. no serious injury. why no serious injury??. just a mild concusion and injured (not broken) shoulder. I was still able to go out to dinner with friends that evening. of course in some pain but walking/talking. if this had happened in my 911 now, would the cage bar cause injury? and have you ever seen some of the videos of dummy tests of side impact to convince you to get an R3 rather than a HANS? with an open window your head whips out through the open window into whatever it T-boning you. or maybe breaks your neck.

back to the point. I also agree with Ed that I would never recommend putting a full cage in a car that is primarily for the steet.

BUT... anyone having a car that is primarily a track car that you still drive occasionally on the street requires compromise. ( I know Ed, roll bar only!)

I have been going to DE events for several years now. reached the point of driving solo, upgraded the car's capabilities, so to increase my skills at this point requires 'pushing it' more. I decided I needed to up the safty content so now cage, seats, harnesses, HANS, gloves, shoes, and next saftey item a full fire suit. PS. I truely hope I NEVER get to test any of this stuff.

although I had harnesses/bar with stock seats in the past, PCA rule changes required me to run several events in 2008 with OEM 3pt. I quickly came to realize two things. it really hampered my ability to drive, and I felt VERY exposed to injury if I did have a wreck on the track.

why a cage and not just rollbar? (note to self, post pics of the project) since I have a targa, I wanted the cage to stiffen the chassis and the increased level of saftey. this cage has welded in plates that are on the boxed frame sections to which the cage is bolted, not just bolted to the floor, and appears very strong. and I wanted a bolt-in so I had the option of removing if I ever wanted/needed to.

but as repeated over and over in this thread, the 911 is a true blast to drive. just cannot bring myself to never drive on the street.

Well.... think I'll fire up the CB1100F and take a ride. the risk/danger of driving my 911 with a cage pales in comparision to this risk. Life if full of risk, so you moderate the risk as much as possible if you enjoy such activities.

can't wait until I can retire, get my sport pilot license, and build my own plane.

Auto_Werks 3.6

Thanks for the response. I really just meant that I knew Ed would tell me absolutely not, and I was hoping for something a little more balanced. I like having the full cage, and I agree about the risks calculated risk. Part of me thinks if you are in a significant enough side impact, you still may be grateful that the bar is there to help preserve the roof line. If the roof moves toward your head it's the same effect, and it won't be wrapped in foam. I also am not an expert, and I hope never to test my theory. Lastly, I usually find myself wearing the harnesses on the street, so I think that helps too. There are sometimes when I feel lazy about them but if I am going to sit on the harness or wear it, it's probably safer just to put it on.

whalebird

Side impacts often send ones head into the b-pillar - usually right where the seatbelt shoulder bolt is. This is a very common fate in side impacts. Always adjust your seat and belt(if adjustable) to mitigate this risk.
I know this is OT, but I am a huge advocate of safety and will offer any advice when nd where I can. I have had a seatbelt save my life, Please always wear them - please.

911tracker85

auto_werks.

pls don't consider my reply more 'balanced'.

I think Ed's concern is valid. part of the problem is ensuring each person makes a fully informed decision. not based on any illusions/delusions.

I really think all of us who participate in such risky behaviour have to come to some determination of risk for ourselves. as I do not have any young children to worry about 'who will be there for them', I may chose to take more risk than a parent with young children to raise. and at my age I have become very aware of my mortality. but I still live life with some level of zest.

I may take risks, but tend to be calculated risks. it is unfortuate on the public hiway we may be able to control OUR behaviour but not that of others. that is part of why I have come to love track events. but even there, we still have a few jerks that are inconsiderate of the safety of others. fortunately they tend to get weeded out quickly.

my problem with harnesses on the street is you either have to keep them loose enough to look over your shoulder when changing lanes, etc., reducing safety, or tighten them to the point they restrict your ability to do so. I have NO idea what the legal status is for harness on the street. probably a state by state issue.

whalebird. I have no doubt seatbelts helped in my 1974 wreck. without them the impact and the spininng of the car would have thrown me around probably causing more injury than I sustained. I wore seat belts in 1974 and have ever since. I have ALWAYS worn helmet when riding motorcycles and even my bicycle.

my wife fears I will end up severly cripppled from one of my 'insane' activities. if such a serious misfortune ever happens to me, I currently believe I would prefer it to be fatal. yet I am amazed at people who are severely disabled but still have a love of life.

I have a 96 yr old great aunt who is struggling with the question of why she is still here, despite all her infirmities, going blind and deaf. my granny died just short of 100, but lived a very full, healthy life up to near the end.

I wish the best for all of you.

911vet

Auto_Werks and 911Tracker: I'll be at the June 28th Autocross to cheer on my best buddies.

Safety in a dual purpose car: When DOT allows us to use harnesses and helmets, and when we all install roll cages, and when 90% of the unnecessary SUVs and Pick-Up Trucks are no longer on the road --- then maybe we'll be safer (though still not safe).

There is nothing safe about driving. Then again, there's nothing safe about life. It's all a journey to the finish. To paraphrase a rather famous saying, you can get there with fuel left in the tank and tread on the tires. Or, you can arrive with fuel spent, rubber worn to the threads, and a helmet soaked in sweat.

We all get there. Some wishing they had just one more day, some wishing they had lived one less. As a doctor who gets to save lives one day and has to end them the next... I know what it's like to hold on to life while wishing it would let go of you.

I'll take my chance and drive my 911 on the street. And Highway Patrol Officer be damned, the lapbelts of the harness stay on!

David911

Remember...

Only life can kill you

Cheers,

David