Should I look at Carrera before plunging into an SC?
12-12-2002, 09:39 AM
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Should I look at Carrera before plunging into an SC?
Just about to take the plunge on an SC. Current owner of the SC is waiting to see if he can get more from someone else. If he can't, the car is mine. In the meantime, he owes me nothing nor do I him, so I shop on...
I have recently found an 86 Carrera with 75k miles that I could buy for about 15 grand. The SC would cost me 12 and needs tensioners and about 500 bucks worth of other stuff right away.
The carrera's owner states the following:
I've owned the car for 2 years , before that it appears to have been a Florida car. No rust at all, very tight and responsive. The car has some minor oil leaks - suspect valve cover gasket and oil return line. Does not burn oil- runs very strong , plugs were clean when I replaced them. Tranny works great , 1st gear synchro is slightly worn- shifting into 1 st is a little difficult when moving over 5 mph -otherwise no problem- it's been like that since I've owned it. Clutch is very solid - never slipped or chattered. All 4 brakes were just replaced last month during the state vehicle inspection.
The major questions here are:
If you have the choice, is there any reason to chose one model over another?
Syncros, are they a big problem. The SC has a newer clutch and rebuilt tranny. I also have the leakdown and compression for the SC...not great, but not bad either 6-8% with 155lbs across the board.
Any help would be appreciated, going to make a (personally) serious purchase soon.
I have recently found an 86 Carrera with 75k miles that I could buy for about 15 grand. The SC would cost me 12 and needs tensioners and about 500 bucks worth of other stuff right away.
The carrera's owner states the following:
I've owned the car for 2 years , before that it appears to have been a Florida car. No rust at all, very tight and responsive. The car has some minor oil leaks - suspect valve cover gasket and oil return line. Does not burn oil- runs very strong , plugs were clean when I replaced them. Tranny works great , 1st gear synchro is slightly worn- shifting into 1 st is a little difficult when moving over 5 mph -otherwise no problem- it's been like that since I've owned it. Clutch is very solid - never slipped or chattered. All 4 brakes were just replaced last month during the state vehicle inspection.
The major questions here are:
If you have the choice, is there any reason to chose one model over another?
Syncros, are they a big problem. The SC has a newer clutch and rebuilt tranny. I also have the leakdown and compression for the SC...not great, but not bad either 6-8% with 155lbs across the board.
Any help would be appreciated, going to make a (personally) serious purchase soon.
12-12-2002, 10:10 AM
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Hi:
I don't own my 911 yet but I'm working on it.... I would say yes, if the '86 looks good to you have a PPI done and see where it leads. I am a strong believer in buying the newest and best you can afford... No matter the auto your looking at. The '86 has the 3.2 and is just newer... Remember, porsche has a great history of striving to make the 911 better each year it is produced.
Of course, a PPI is absolutely neccessary. Newer is nice but the condition of the vehicle and it's history matters most.
Good luck!!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Eric
I don't own my 911 yet but I'm working on it.... I would say yes, if the '86 looks good to you have a PPI done and see where it leads. I am a strong believer in buying the newest and best you can afford... No matter the auto your looking at. The '86 has the 3.2 and is just newer... Remember, porsche has a great history of striving to make the 911 better each year it is produced.
Of course, a PPI is absolutely neccessary. Newer is nice but the condition of the vehicle and it's history matters most.
Good luck!!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Eric
12-12-2002, 10:11 AM
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I'm thinking about buying, so I've been following the market and getting educated. So here's my perspective.
First, remember the addage of buying the newest one you can afford.
Second, IMO $15K for the 3.2 is a better deal than $12K for the SC - this from following actual selling prices on ebay for several weeks now, and looking at kbb ($8k for the SC).
As to differences, the 86 is newer. That means more power, heavier, better HVAC, same tranny in this case, less sun on the dashboard (although on a florida car the interior might be bleached), 50k miles less wear.
Have you driven it? How does it feel to you? Unless you really want an SC for whatever reason, all else being equal (clean PPI), I'd go for the Carrera.
good luck,
Stef
First, remember the addage of buying the newest one you can afford.
Second, IMO $15K for the 3.2 is a better deal than $12K for the SC - this from following actual selling prices on ebay for several weeks now, and looking at kbb ($8k for the SC).
As to differences, the 86 is newer. That means more power, heavier, better HVAC, same tranny in this case, less sun on the dashboard (although on a florida car the interior might be bleached), 50k miles less wear.
Have you driven it? How does it feel to you? Unless you really want an SC for whatever reason, all else being equal (clean PPI), I'd go for the Carrera.
good luck,
Stef
12-12-2002, 10:40 AM
#4
must agree, go with the newest you can afford...a PPI on this one is a must...what I'd do is talk to the owner and get a FIRM price on the car b/f the PPI...explain to him that you just completed a PPI on a SC and would like to on this one (once a selling price has been established)...if the PPI is <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> , go with whichever you like the most...look at it this way too...$3,000 for 4 years and 25,000 less miles...the '82 is 20 years old, so classic car insurance is available by almost all insurance companies (I get it through American Family starting in January for $300 for $16,000 of coverage)...of course all things are not equal (color pref, etc.)
Good luck and keep us posted...
Good luck and keep us posted...
12-12-2002, 10:43 AM
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I'd go for the Carrera if you can afford it, and the PPI checks out. If it's in good cosmetic and mechanical shape, that sounds like a good price for the money.
I think a lot of these cars would have issues if you try downshifting to 1st at speed.
I think a lot of these cars would have issues if you try downshifting to 1st at speed.
12-12-2002, 11:22 AM
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I think it comes down to which one you like better. They are both old cars and will in all likelyhood require more maintenance than is apparent now. Records are a big plus in my book because you have a timeline for big ticket repairs. Go with your gut. You will love either one.
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12-12-2002, 12:06 PM
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Mada,
One other consideration may be the makeup of your gasoline. If ethanol is used, or is anticipated shortly, you may be better in the long run with the 3.2L engine in the Carrera (given the two choices in your original post). CIS-based engines have alot of metal touching the gas, and lots of opportunity to touch water held in suspension by the alchohol. There's been discussion on this in Pano, and even back into Up-Fixin'. The pre-CIS and 3.2L and later engines have much less metal touching the gas, and thus don't have the same considerations as a CIS engine might. Don't get me wrong either: ethanol-based gas isn't going to kill a CIS-based engine, however, it may create some running problems.
One other consideration may be the makeup of your gasoline. If ethanol is used, or is anticipated shortly, you may be better in the long run with the 3.2L engine in the Carrera (given the two choices in your original post). CIS-based engines have alot of metal touching the gas, and lots of opportunity to touch water held in suspension by the alchohol. There's been discussion on this in Pano, and even back into Up-Fixin'. The pre-CIS and 3.2L and later engines have much less metal touching the gas, and thus don't have the same considerations as a CIS engine might. Don't get me wrong either: ethanol-based gas isn't going to kill a CIS-based engine, however, it may create some running problems.
12-12-2002, 01:24 PM
#9
5 mph? 75K? You're probably staring down at a tranny rebuild quick. Get out and try it yourself at 10 MPH, if issues, probably not.
People recommend waiting to shift from 2nd to 1st under 10 MPH to save wear and tear on the synchros (wow, what an oxymoron, not downshifting to avoid damage so can downshift?
) If you actually can't do it (like our 5mph example) then it's too late.
Not crazy about the price, it's reasonable sans tranny. Maybe a $1.5 k less if the body and guts are OK, $1k if said pieces are cherry (taking into account busted tranny)
People recommend waiting to shift from 2nd to 1st under 10 MPH to save wear and tear on the synchros (wow, what an oxymoron, not downshifting to avoid damage so can downshift?
) If you actually can't do it (like our 5mph example) then it's too late.Not crazy about the price, it's reasonable sans tranny. Maybe a $1.5 k less if the body and guts are OK, $1k if said pieces are cherry (taking into account busted tranny)
12-12-2002, 03:16 PM
#10
I was in the same boat, looking at SCs (only) when I came across the Carrera. The engine management system in the 3.2 is downright wonderful, worth the $3K premium. The additional HP, factory tensioner, clutch are a nice cmfort factor when it will cost at least $3K to bring a SC up to it's level.
The lack of history on the car is a minus. Even the best PPI can not make up for not knowing if/when the car had head/tranny/jugs and other deep internal work.
My prior owner also wanted to wait for a better offer. He came back 8 days later and (much to my surprise) accepted my lowball offer. Winter is the worst time to sell a Porsche, best time to buy....
The lack of history on the car is a minus. Even the best PPI can not make up for not knowing if/when the car had head/tranny/jugs and other deep internal work.
My prior owner also wanted to wait for a better offer. He came back 8 days later and (much to my surprise) accepted my lowball offer. Winter is the worst time to sell a Porsche, best time to buy....
12-12-2002, 06:22 PM
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Honestly there's not much difference between the SC and Carrera (beware of flames). Other than the Motronic fuel injection system the cars are really close - transmission, HVAC, body, interior are practically identical
Motronic Porsche = heavier, more power, better fuel economy.
I too would go for the Carrera over the SC however full PPI comes first. A $16K used Porsche can quickly become a $25K used Porsche if you're not careful. Buyers market so make offers and keep looking.
Motronic Porsche = heavier, more power, better fuel economy.
I too would go for the Carrera over the SC however full PPI comes first. A $16K used Porsche can quickly become a $25K used Porsche if you're not careful. Buyers market so make offers and keep looking.
12-13-2002, 01:14 AM
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I think the Carrera @ $15K represents the better value, provided the PPI checks out. You stated that the Carrera is in better comestic condition than the SC. You could easily spend several grand bringing the comestics up to snuff. Good luck whichever route you choose.
12-13-2002, 11:29 AM
#13
With no service records on the carrera I would plan on having a major service performed before putting any mileage on it. Well documented maintenace is worth a ton in my book - at least you know the work was done.
12-13-2002, 11:56 AM
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If a PPI doesn't reveal any surprises, buy the Carrera. Oil return tubes are not that big a repair. You can address the leaky valve covers when you do a major service, which includes a valve adjustment. Negotiate the cost of a valve adjustment and replacement of the return tubes into the selling price. I would be willing to bet that the car is due for a major service.
As far as the gearbox. Try changing the fluid (SWEPCO) before you tear the thing apart. You'd be surprised what fresh gear oil can do for a 915 gearbox. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
As far as the gearbox. Try changing the fluid (SWEPCO) before you tear the thing apart. You'd be surprised what fresh gear oil can do for a 915 gearbox. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
12-13-2002, 02:54 PM
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As a dedicated SC diehard (I have two of them!) I would say go with the Carrera, all else being equal. I, too, feel that $3,000 is about the right amount to pay extra for the Motronic, if you are looking at a late SC vs. an early Carrera of equal condition and mileage. I would say that the premium for Motronic, plus the G50, should be closer to $5,000.
No matter what you hear, mileage does make a difference, if only because high mileage means more hands have taken apart more of the car, creating more chances for errors, as a general rule.
On the other hand, my late Euro SC is just as fast as a Carrera, and a lot lighter, which I feel is an attractive package, and I can tell you that I paid a whole lot less than I would have for a comparable condition Carrera. I'm happy.
But, Porsche people tend to be possession proud, so many feel that they MUST have the later car. I think that this leads some people to pay $3,000 JUST to have the Motronic, or $5,000 JUST to have the Motronic and G50, and otherwise the car is a piece of junk. These people would have been better off with a nice SC.
Just my opinion.
No matter what you hear, mileage does make a difference, if only because high mileage means more hands have taken apart more of the car, creating more chances for errors, as a general rule.
On the other hand, my late Euro SC is just as fast as a Carrera, and a lot lighter, which I feel is an attractive package, and I can tell you that I paid a whole lot less than I would have for a comparable condition Carrera. I'm happy.
But, Porsche people tend to be possession proud, so many feel that they MUST have the later car. I think that this leads some people to pay $3,000 JUST to have the Motronic, or $5,000 JUST to have the Motronic and G50, and otherwise the car is a piece of junk. These people would have been better off with a nice SC.
Just my opinion.